What's Wrong With American Cops?
Discussion
Snowboy said:
mackie1 said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
There is a sort of blind respect/worship/support/deference towards anything in a uniform.
I think it's closer to fear actually.I never noticed that when I lived there.
Although your experience may be from a different state.
It's a country where you can't drink till 21 and 'anyone' can own a handgun.
It's a young country, my house is older than some of the states.
It's a very, very religious country.
It is different.
We're trying to measure their police against our standards, and that's never going to work.
mackie1 said:
It's just the general impression I have that (generally law abiding) Americans are more likely to genuinely fear and distrust their local law enforcers than we are, regardless of the reasons for it or whether it's justified or not.
They don't. They generally appreciate the work they do and see them as part of the community. Having spent many hours on patrol with them, I've never had any other experience. The difference arises in that their criminals know, if caught, they are likely to be disappearing into prison for a good number of years. Consequently, they are more likely to resort to extreme measures to escape. mackie1 said:
It's just the general impression I have that (generally law abiding) Americans are more likely to genuinely fear and distrust their local law enforcers than we are, regardless of the reasons for it or whether it's justified or not.
I'm just curious where that impression comes from?Living in the US? Chatting to Americans?
Or from TV?
Snowboy said:
I'm just curious where that impression comes from?
Living in the US? Chatting to Americans?
Or from TV?
I've spent quite a lot of time in the South and also on the West Coast. TBH, the fear thing does exist but it varies massively between communities - Mexican farm labourers are scared senseless of the cops, young black men are scared (but conceal it with bravado and BS) and professional white people aren't scared in any way unless they have fLiving in the US? Chatting to Americans?
Or from TV?
ked up really, really badly. If the cops hassle them, they just phone the lawyers or have a quiet word with their Democrat/Republican pal who's got party connections.....The difference I was most acutely aware of was the idea that it was acceptable for the cops to intimidate people or do anything else they saw fit, as long as they were 'enforcing the law' on the kind of people the law should be dealing with.
I had the pleasure of having to lie face down in the dirt with a gun pointed at me for giving what a cop thought was a sarcastic answer after getting stopped in Tennessee. After the frisking was finished, I explained to him that I 'worked in the law' in the UK and was staying with a prominent local family - I could call them directly if he needed somebody to vouch for my 'bona fides'? At which point he became very conciliatory, telling me he thought I might have had a gun etc etc but hoped there were no hard feelings. Even offered to give me a lift! Call me crazy, but I don't think the same courtesy would have been extended to a local black or latino kid.
EDIT: changed 'Spanish' to 'Mexican'. No idea why I wrote that originally
Edited by spitsfire on Wednesday 9th October 02:53
Yes, they are very big on respect and courtesy over there.
Not just the police, but society in general.
It took me a while to get used to it.
Flippant sarcasm or wit just isn't understood as we understand it.
They know what sarcasm is, just look at the simpsons; but they see it as unkind and mean.
Sarcasm in the UK is friendly.
Sarcasm in the US is rude.
If you are rude to the police over there they come down hard on you.
Afaik, The US laws also allow a lot more physical interaction than ours do, and their stop and search procedures are based around suspects potentially being armed.
So there's a lit more lying on the floor and keeping hands in sight.
Not just the police, but society in general.
It took me a while to get used to it.
Flippant sarcasm or wit just isn't understood as we understand it.
They know what sarcasm is, just look at the simpsons; but they see it as unkind and mean.
Sarcasm in the UK is friendly.
Sarcasm in the US is rude.
If you are rude to the police over there they come down hard on you.
Afaik, The US laws also allow a lot more physical interaction than ours do, and their stop and search procedures are based around suspects potentially being armed.
So there's a lit more lying on the floor and keeping hands in sight.
Snowboy said:
I'm just curious where that impression comes from?
Living in the US? Chatting to Americans?
Or from TV?
Not personal experience, just an impression from what I've read both in the media and from independant sources. Note I said "more likely". I'm not saying it's universal I'm just saying that the fear is more prevalent. I think there's more potential for a local cop in the USA to ruin your day/month/life than they can here, especially if you aren't white and well off. I'm not ignorant as to the reasons, it's a whole different kettle of fish to the UK.Living in the US? Chatting to Americans?
Or from TV?
mackie1 said:
Snowboy said:
I'm just curious where that impression comes from?
Living in the US? Chatting to Americans?
Or from TV?
Not personal experience, just an impression from what I've read both in the media and from independant sources. Note I said "more likely". I'm not saying it's universal I'm just saying that the fear is more prevalent. I think there's more potential for a local cop in the USA to ruin your day/month/life than they can here, especially if you aren't white and well off. I'm not ignorant as to the reasons, it's a whole different kettle of fish to the UK.Living in the US? Chatting to Americans?
Or from TV?
I think criminals are more afraid of the pokice in the US.
But that's a good thing in my opinion.
Rovinghawk said:
Snowboy said:
Yes, they are very big on respect and courtesy over there.
Those who expect it should also give it.But in my experience those who demand respect from the police are normally the last to give it in return.
In fact - most people who demand respect from the police don't even offer common courtesy.
I don't think there's any surprise that polite respectful people find the police to be friendly and helpful, but the rude obnoxious people find the police to be aggressive and disrespectful.
Edited by Snowboy on Tuesday 8th October 13:46
Edited by Snowboy on Tuesday 8th October 13:47
There seems to be a lot of sweeping generalization and assumption in this thread, peppered by a small amount of good sense and real-world experience. I'm guessing most of this generalization comes from TV shows.
My daughter is a Sheriffs Deputy, based in a busy, high crime metro area in Florida. I ride-along' with her and her fellow officers whenever the opportunity and time permits. She was in training to be a Met cop at Hendon when we moved to the US, so seemed destined for this career path.
Her work is high-stress pretty much all of the time - because the risks are so much higher in the US. Her agency works solo, rather than in pairs and some zones in her sector can put her a long way from back-up.
Interactions with the public are always dictated by the attitude (rather than 'respect') of the public. If you are straight with them, they are invariably straight with you - but they always prepare for the worst outcome in any interaction. When they get sloppy/lazy/relaxed, they elevate the risk of ending up dead enormously.
As stated there are very few instances of praise for police - and that's fine, but most are decent, friendly and professional - firm and assertive when the need arises - fearful for their lives when the need arises.
Calling them arrogant f*ckers that everyone wants to kill is rather offensive to me, as you might imagine.
My daughter is a Sheriffs Deputy, based in a busy, high crime metro area in Florida. I ride-along' with her and her fellow officers whenever the opportunity and time permits. She was in training to be a Met cop at Hendon when we moved to the US, so seemed destined for this career path.
Her work is high-stress pretty much all of the time - because the risks are so much higher in the US. Her agency works solo, rather than in pairs and some zones in her sector can put her a long way from back-up.
Interactions with the public are always dictated by the attitude (rather than 'respect') of the public. If you are straight with them, they are invariably straight with you - but they always prepare for the worst outcome in any interaction. When they get sloppy/lazy/relaxed, they elevate the risk of ending up dead enormously.
As stated there are very few instances of praise for police - and that's fine, but most are decent, friendly and professional - firm and assertive when the need arises - fearful for their lives when the need arises.
Calling them arrogant f*ckers that everyone wants to kill is rather offensive to me, as you might imagine.
Snowboy said:
Yes, absolutely.
But in my experience those who demand respect from the police are normally the last to give it in return.
In fact - most people who demand respect from the police don't even offer common courtesy.
I don't think there's can't surprise that polite respectfully people find the police to be friendly and helpful, but the rude obnoxious people find the police to be aggressive and disrespectful.
That's fair comment, but the US approach is more about deference and obedience than respect. If you're seeing it as a tourist asking for directions or whatever, respect is ok. In a more difficult situation, they demand obedience. But in my experience those who demand respect from the police are normally the last to give it in return.
In fact - most people who demand respect from the police don't even offer common courtesy.
I don't think there's can't surprise that polite respectfully people find the police to be friendly and helpful, but the rude obnoxious people find the police to be aggressive and disrespectful.
It's not like the UK, where a cop says 'jump' and you can get away with asking what authority they're relying on to require that you jump; in the US you jump or you get tasered. And that's before you get into the delicate issue of race. The only time I had any difficulties with US cops was when I let it happen, but I worked with an Indonesian guy, and he used to get pulled over regularly. He literally couldn't take a s
t without the cops asking for his papers - he got searched after walking out of a toilet 'suspiciously' at a truck stop!Not to say that US coppers aren't nice people, it's more that they are institutionally aggressive and self-righteous. If you don't believe me, read the article posted above from the New Yorker.
spitsfire said:
Not to say that US coppers aren't nice people, it's more that they are institutionally aggressive and self-righteous. If you don't believe me, read the article posted above from the New Yorker.
Although, I have observed myself that if you compare LA with NY for instance, all Americans (not just the Police)tend to be less patient, ruder and more up-tight.So where you are in the States has a bearing, too.
If you want to understand how endemic corruption can get, have a listen to the latest "this American life" podcast on the right to remain silent.
It follows the case of one nypd officer who realised his precinct (81st) was acting illegally by by running a quota system and what happens to him is scary, sobering stuff. He became paranoid enough to secretly record mos of what happened to him.
Just listen to the podcast, it will scare you. Or google nypd 81st
It follows the case of one nypd officer who realised his precinct (81st) was acting illegally by by running a quota system and what happens to him is scary, sobering stuff. He became paranoid enough to secretly record mos of what happened to him.
Just listen to the podcast, it will scare you. Or google nypd 81st
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