What's Wrong With American Cops?

[Tannedbaldhead]

carinaman said:

PC Savage obviously bought a retirement home in Florida:

http://gawker.com/florida-man-literally-arrested-f...

What was he expecting wearing a loud shirt like that?

It's a bit like me getting tasered for typing in the wrong forum.

Edited by carinaman on Thursday 10th October 18:38

Where another worry lies was, if convicted, resisting arrest probably get's you put away for years.

When Occupy and students were protesting against the bankers in a number of American cities it was bad enough that peaceful protests who's crime was merely to sit on a university campus link arms and sing "we shall overcome" were pepper sprayed full in the face with a fire extinguisherful of the stuff. Bad enough but not enough because worse still was that public prosecuters were warning that should a protester engaged in protest they would be instructed to move, if they refused they would be arrested for obstructing, once arrested if they did not get up for the arresting officer they would be charged with resisting arrest and, as having to pick up limp protesters could strain the backs of these huge ex-military type cops it also constituted an "assault and battery of an officer" to which the protester would be charged. They were looking at severalteen years jailtime. In addition to this kids wearing gasmasks were warned by police chiefs they ran a serious risk of being shot on site. Their argument was that if the police on the ground felt they could not protect themselves from a protester with CS Gas and pepperspray they would have to resort to live ammunition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4

[Tannedbaldhead]

Today's news tells us US cops can now apply for senior positions within the UK Police. Hmmmmmm. Suddenly a bit of general gassing becomes a bit more relevant.

[Tannedbaldhead]

Greendubber said:

Mk3Spitfire said:

And I don't think it will be "soon" if ever.
I'm sure there are the official stats somewhere, but very few people die from the actual taser, it's the fall that does the damage.

Secondary injuries and other health issues, no one has been 'tasered to death'

So if I punch someone in the jaw, he falls cracks his skull off the pavement and dies I'll quote this principle as stated by police officer. "It wasn't my punch that killed him m'lud, twas the fall" and then with a cheery "see ya wouldn't wanna be ya" I'd be off, scot free to do what I want any old time.

Or, then again, tasered to death may well be a fair term of reference should someone be tasered and die.

[Tannedbaldhead]

vsonix said:

If anyone fancies some depressing/infuriating viewing... Filming Cops

It's relentless: Autistic kids getting thumped, tazed for walking away awkwardly from shouty cops coz his shirt wasn't tucked in, jogger thumped for failing to comply to an instruction she didn't hear as she was wearing earphones, old Indian man beaten near to death as he couldn't understand an officer's instructions, deaf people thumped and tazed for failing to comply (duh!!!), wheelchair users thumped for not standing up when instructed, kid thumped because of a ruling that slogans on t-shirts were deemed as an unauthorised protest (he got his pal to take pictures of him standing next to a cop whilst wearing a t-shirt that said "illegal protest, breaking the law and I know it".)

And the dogs. So many friendly dogs shot by cops. On one occasion not only did they shoot a dog but a senior officer visited the victim and warned that if any of the family looked at a cop the wrong way they'd be shot too.
He then stood his ground and explained that as he policed an area where everyone had a gun. Then he said that if his dog got shot he might just get "sore" enough to sort out the person who did it. As police chief he therefore had to make sure this didn't happen to his officer. If my officer had shot a friendly dog I'd be quiet happy for him to be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his career.

Nasty country. Nasty Police forces

[Tannedbaldhead]

havoc said:

La Liga said:

The risk levels to the police are on a different level to what we have here.

I'm no expert on US policing, but it looks like a lot of the problems come from not being able to escalate and de-escalate in line with a changing situation. It's almost as if once they're at a 10 they must remain at a 10.

I can't find it but I read a good article on US policing, and in particular the interaction between:-
- the gun-culture over there (and the stresses that has to put on a serving officer's endochrine system - far more so than in Europe);
- the body's natural fight/flight adrenaline reaction, particularly under repeated exposure as above (google adrenal shock);
- the lack of training / lack of follow-up training regarding self-control / impulse management; and
- the increasingly paranoid us-vs-them culture in most US police forces.


...which doesn't come to a single conclusion, but does strongly suggest that the US Police, as a body-politic, absolutely refuse to accept there's an issue, so will both cover-up events and will not address/modify training in how their cops should act. Until they do, this won't change...and every subsequent event is just polarising opinions even more - the Police feel more isolated/victimised by the liberal elements in society, society feels more ill-served by corrupt police...and no-one is stepping-in to mediate and get both sides to admit there's a problem...

Another problem is an absolute support US police receive from a huge section of American society regardless of their actions.
Look at the comments on any you-tube clip and it's almost beyond credibility what they will tolerate. Anyone who doesn't comply absolutely and immediately deserves anything they get.
Anyone deaf, autistic, wearing headphones or unable to understand English who gets beaten or shot is unlucky but then so is the officer as "how was he to know?".
Cops shoot a dog and the chief of police visits the poor owner not to sympathise but to warn the guy "if he looks the wrong way at a cop he'll be shot". The cop supporting public state this is common sense as in a country where everyone has a gun cops can't afford to tolerate someone being that sore at them and need to act in the interests of officer safety.
If a cop shot a dog here the officer's safety wouldn't be much of a issue (in fact most of UK public were disappointed when that policeman made an arse of killing himself after locking is dogs in a policevan on a summers day leaving them to die).

[Tannedbaldhead]

Corpulent Tosser said:

2ono said:

Maybe if these people did what they were told, when they were told, they wouldn't get shot.....

People, including myself, don't like being told what to do additionally if they are doing something illegal they may feel it is worth the risk to run, fight, whatever.

If someone has a gun and just might shoot me, I am inclined to go along with doing what they say.

Problem is what happens to the deaf, the tourist without Any English, joggers wearing ear phones, the autistic child in low slung pabts who walks away from a shouty cop because he can't cope with conflict, the firemen and paramedics doing their jobs to the best of their ability when they are merely perceived to be defying the instructions of American police officers and suffered horrendous consequences?
The most rabid supporters of law and order would say "unfortunate collateral damage where compliance to officers is an expected absolute". I'd day beat the st out of someone deaf coz he didn't do what he was told and you should be locked up. Am I being unreasonable?

[Tannedbaldhead]

BrownBottle said:

So much aggression.

I'm not sure what kind of training they give the police in America but they seriously need to reassess it. The public must despise them.

Strange thing is many love their cops and the way they behave.

A fire chief or a paramedic can hear a police officer tell one of their staff working at an incident to do something he considers unsafe. In response the senior emergency responder instructs his staff "don't do what the cop is telling you. Do what I say". This has resulted in the senior emergency responder ending up on the floor, in cuffs and with a cop sitting on him shouting "you just obstructed a police officer. You're going to jail". In the UK our jaws would be on the floor. What shocks me is the number of comments you see when the story and video is posted saying "You just can't defy a cop like that. The fire chief/paramedic was dumb. He was lucky he didn't get his ass kicked"
When someone deaf, a non English speaker, a woman listening to music on headphones and an autistic child all got beaten for failing to comply fully and immediately with instructions again, rather than express shock, a lot of members of the public state "I kinda feel sorry for the victim but the poor cop wasn't to know the person they kicked the st out of couldn't hear or understand them".

[Tannedbaldhead]

Elroy Blue said:

Where's the outrage and protests. Certain posters seem to be keen to list what goes on in the USA

https://www.officerdownthethinblueline.org/recent-...

Outrageous and heartbreaking for her family and colleagues but....

RDMcG said:

This is not of course a defence for the excesses that are regularly reported here.

[Tannedbaldhead]

Elroy Blue said:

Nobody says it was. But there's a certain section of society that will demand Police Officers be hung from the nearest lamp post regardless of circumstances (there's a few post regularly in here).

However, officer killings by firearms in the US have increased 1000% (one thousand) this year. Where are the usual suspects protesting their slaying.

If that's right and I have no reason to doubt you that figure is jaw dropping shocking. WTF is going on over there?

[Tannedbaldhead]

havoc said:

The police, and their behaviour, is seen as the front line in the protection of the status-quo by those unhappy. And things are getting nasty...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4

I suppose when you see peaceful protesters being treated like this nobody is going to break their heart if the casual tear-gasser took a bullet to the skull. In fact, it would be hard not to crack a wee smile.

Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 29th February 21:25

Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 29th February 21:26

Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Saturday 19th March 19:32