Help: Ducati not honouring 'international' warranty
Discussion
Unfortunately, I doubt the OP will have much success with this issue. I lived in Cyprus for seven years and have countless similar tales of euro-purchased products were warranties were not honoured by local dealerships, eu state or not. They tend to get embroiled in red tape them brushed under the carpet...
Breadvan72 said:
His views appear to be based on some personal or family woes, which hardly give a basis for an impartial opinion, and are larded with political ranting. I attach little value to them.
Actually - personal, family and professional woes at British, American and Canadian institutions over the last 15 years.Attach what value you want to them - there's nothing political about the resolutions they ignore - that's just pure fact. There's nothing political about my experiences in business with them - (premises and technology services contracts). The single worst experience I've had with all countries is with a commercial property land lord in Russia, attempting blackmail!
My point is that the government, courts, mentality/culture of businesses and of people in a given country are indicative of what you might expect to happen if you end up wronged, which clearly the OP has.
Or you can just stand there with British indignation and say "it's not cricket", then attempt to apply British sensibilities to the situation there and fail. Like when the papers latch on to 'special arrangement fees' that big British companies have to pay in Africa or the middle east Arab countries to royal families or state officials. Shock horror, a company has to pay a bribe to get things done - isn't it disgusting. Well it would be in the UK, but you aren't in the UK and you can't do business in some countries without doing this.
I stand by what I said - the OP should be hammering Ducati HQ and Ducati GB, which I understand is what he is doing.
Just received an email (in Hebrew) from Ducati Israel, which Google Translate interprets as: "after further verification with Ducati, we have decided in this case to give you a full refund".
I just hope that this sets a precedent for the future and that I also won't be charged upfront anymore.
Thanks for all the support, the social media route certainly seems to work.
I just hope that this sets a precedent for the future and that I also won't be charged upfront anymore.
Thanks for all the support, the social media route certainly seems to work.
Excellent result. 
Breadvan72 said:
You need to check (1) what entity made the contract with you, (2) whether the contract specifies a governing law, and (3) whether it specifies jurisdiction for resolving disputes, as well as checking what may be said about repairs etc in countries other than the one where the bike was purchased.
Hi,Unfortunately, contrary to what I thought, this issue has not been fully resolved. Although the Israeli dealer has refunded the costs of the original warranty repair, they have informed me that they're unwilling to provide services to me any longer because I'm a "money-losing customer". I also think they've discovered the forum conversations about them and are upset as a result of the bad publicity.This is particularly problematic now because another fault has developed with the bike and they are the sole importer of Ducati parts.
I've, without doubt, reached the stage where I'm prepared to take legal action. One of the main purposes for me in purchasing a new machine is the peace of mind associated with the manufacturer's warranty. The motorcycle is marketed as a 'globe-busting' type of machine (indeed what intended on and have in fact been doing with it) and therefore Ducati's breach (albeit via their agent) has been even more disappointing. For me, the let-down has been less about costs - and more about the hassle I've incurred in place of the peace-of-mind that I expected when purchasing the vehicle. For the same service, I might as well have purchased a 2-year-old machine for half the price!
Breadvan72, in response to your points:
(1) I'm having difficulty establishing who exactly made the sales contract with me. The 'goods' themselves were purchased from a Ducati dealership in the UK (which I need not name). I spoke to them today, and they are adamant (unsurprisingly) that they bear no responsibility over this dispute. Their argument was that they have done nothing wrong - which is correct - but in my effort to try to get them to help me, I tried to explain to them that they may still be responsible as the original supplier of the vehicle and the fact that one of their agents (in this case Ducati Israel) is the one causing the breach, is something that the Ducati members should deal with internally amongst themselves and therefore compensate each other accordingly; however it may be the original seller who may end up being the defendant against me. What do you think? Alternatively, could it be Ducati UK that are the defendants? I have verified that they are not just an importer, but are actually the UK entity of Ducati Italy.
Also, I took out a PCP with Black Horse for the first year, but this has been paid off now; do they have any responsibility over this?
(2) In terms of the governing law, wouldn't it, by default, come under UK consumer law (as that's where the goods were purchased)? Under the Liability Limitations section of the warranty book, it says "except as for the 'consumer' , or as otherwise provided by a mandatory regulation in force in the country of the Consumer, the Court of Bologna (Italy) shall have sole jurisdiction over and controversies in connection with these Warranty Conditions". Is there any reason why this contract should not be covered by UK consumer law and therefore fall under the jurisdiction of Bologna??
(3)As for repairs in other countries, the warranty book makes it pretty clear that the warranty is covered anywhere where there is an official dealer network; see image here
DaineseMan said:
....it says "except as for the 'consumer' , or as otherwise provided by a mandatory regulation in force in the country of the Consumer, the Court of Bologna (Italy) shall have sole jurisdiction over and controversies in connection with these Warranty Conditions". ...
This makes no grammatical sense. Can you please post the exact wording. Email me the whole thing. Advising on gobbets of a contract is never a good idea, as you have to construe the document as a whole. The party that offers the guarantee is the Italian company named in the clause that you have scanned above. The UK Dealership would owe you some obligations under English law, but it is not apparent that they have breached any of those.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 18th March 09:03
One thing that you should take on board straight away is that you cannot recover damages for hassle, or loss of peace of mind. Such damages can be recovered in some instances such as holiday contracts, where peace of mind is the essence of the contract, but not in contracts relating to goods.
The warranty contract appears to be governed by English law because of article 6 of the EU's Rome Regulation ("what has the EU ever done for us, eh?").
I still need to see the contract to advise on jurisdiction. The basic rules for that are in the Brussels Convention, which is embedded in English law by the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982, and those rules allow for contractual choice of law.
I still need to see the contract to advise on jurisdiction. The basic rules for that are in the Brussels Convention, which is embedded in English law by the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982, and those rules allow for contractual choice of law.
Breadvan72 said:
The warranty contract appears to be governed by English law because of article 6 of the EU's Rome Regulation ("what has the EU ever done for us, eh?").
I still need to see the contract to advise on jurisdiction. The basic rules for that are in the Brussels Convention, which is embedded in English law by the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982, and those rules allow for contractual choice of law.
God, I love it when you talk dirty.... I still need to see the contract to advise on jurisdiction. The basic rules for that are in the Brussels Convention, which is embedded in English law by the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982, and those rules allow for contractual choice of law.
Breadvan72 said:
One thing that you should take on board straight away is that you cannot recover damages for hassle, or loss of peace of mind. Such damages can be recovered in some instances such as holiday contracts, where peace of mind is the essence of the contract, but not in contracts relating to goods.
Interesting point, thanks for that.Breadvan72 said:
I still need to see the contract to advise on jurisdiction.
Here is a scan of all the sections of the general warranty condition. (Btw, Ducati Manchester was not the dealer who sold the bike).
Breadvan72 said:
Illegible (on my screen, anyway), and INCOMPLETE. Which part of "I need to see the WHOLE contract" are you struggling with? I think that I will give up on this thread, as you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
That is the whole contract from the service book. There are no other sections to it at all. I've uploaded the scans again via a different service, so it should be legible now. You may need to zoom in depending on your screen.
My ancient eyes struggle to read that scan. The choice of jurisdiction clause is so badly drafted as to be almost meaningless. It appears, to give it some meaning if possible, to give the consumer the option to sue elsewhere than in Bologna, and in any event the consumer provisions of Brussels work in your favour, so I think you can sue under English law and in an English Court.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 18th March 11:04
NB do not rush to sue. Litigation does not bring closure, vindication, or happiness. It brings hassle and stress, and the law can rarely offer much more than the blunt instrument of money to compensate actual losses, and does not compensate you for being mucked about. Talk first, and only sue if you really have to. Stay calm, don't get shouty, and ignore the stupid advice given by someone above that slagging a company off on a bike forum will help get a result.
Ducati is deemed by EU (and so by English) law to be domiciled in the UK for the purposes of dealings with a UK consumer, so talk to Ducati UK.
Ducati is deemed by EU (and so by English) law to be domiciled in the UK for the purposes of dealings with a UK consumer, so talk to Ducati UK.
DaineseMan said:
So should I proceed against Ducati UK, the dealer, or both? Small claims court?
Your contract is with Ducati SPA, an Italian company, but you can sue it here. Do not jump into Court. Negotiate via Ducati UK, but if all else fails your claim is against Ducati SPA. Choice of Court depends on size of claim. Breadvan72 said:
NB do not rush to sue. Litigation does not bring closure, vindication, or happiness. It brings hassle and stress, and the law can rarely offer much more than the blunt instrument of money to compensate actual losses, and does not compensate you for being mucked about. Talk first, and only sue if you really have to. Stay calm, don't get shouty, and ignore the stupid advice given by someone above that slagging a company off on a bike forum will help get a result.
Correct, but part of the 'litigation' involves the negotiation beforehand. I need to know who to be putting the pressure on in the first place, so thanks for helping out on that point!Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff