Judicial review costs budgets (plus general CPR rant)
Discussion
Back on the original topic:-
Following a consultation, the CPR Committee has now agreed amendments to CPR Part 3 and PD3E which, subject to ministerial approval, will come into force after Easter. The scope of the rules are clarified so that rather than applying to all multi-track cases (subject to specified exceptions), they will from 22 April apply only to all Part 7 multi-track cases (again subject to specified exceptions). The Court retains the power, either of its own motion or on application from a party, to apply the budgeting rule in any other case.
So it is now clear that costs budgeting does not apply to JR (or other Part 8 claims) unless the Court orders the parties to produce costs budgets in a particular case, in the exercise of its ordinary case management powers.
On a wider note, Grayling talking cobblers, again:-
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/mar/26/judicia...
Following a consultation, the CPR Committee has now agreed amendments to CPR Part 3 and PD3E which, subject to ministerial approval, will come into force after Easter. The scope of the rules are clarified so that rather than applying to all multi-track cases (subject to specified exceptions), they will from 22 April apply only to all Part 7 multi-track cases (again subject to specified exceptions). The Court retains the power, either of its own motion or on application from a party, to apply the budgeting rule in any other case.
So it is now clear that costs budgeting does not apply to JR (or other Part 8 claims) unless the Court orders the parties to produce costs budgets in a particular case, in the exercise of its ordinary case management powers.
On a wider note, Grayling talking cobblers, again:-
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/mar/26/judicia...
Breadvan72 said:
On a wider note, Grayling talking cobblers, again:-
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/mar/26/judicia...
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/mar/26/judicia...
Owen Bowcott legal affairs correspondent The Guardian website Wednesday 26 March 2014 said:
One clause introduces the novel concept that courts can refuse cases if it appears "highly likely that the outcome for the applicant would not have been substantially different if the conduct complained of had not occurred". Critics have warned that it will force judges to engage in abstract speculation.
I'll invest my newly liberated pension pot in Crystal Ball manufacturers.
The 3 months time limit isn't widely advertised is it? Not on the IPCC Appeal Forms, nor in their letter 'They followed procedures, but we're not saying there's not something worth investigating'.
It's very odd isn't it, something that happened less than two years ago can't be looked at due to a time limit in procedures but we can get Max Clifford, Roache and DLT in court for things that happened decades ago.
It's very odd isn't it, something that happened less than two years ago can't be looked at due to a time limit in procedures but we can get Max Clifford, Roache and DLT in court for things that happened decades ago.
FEWER than two years ago, Goddammit!
Public administration requires certainty, so challenge fast or not at all. Legal advice is available to those who may have legal beefs, and stuff can be looked up on the net. Everyone is assumed to know the law (except for Her Majesty's Judges, but from them there is a right of appeal).
There should not be a limitation period for alleged murder, or alleged rape, or alleged sexual assault, and therefore there isn't one. Ditto being an actual Nazi, and such, although another Court (if it exists, which it doesn't) will soon be dealing with those who are left.
Public administration requires certainty, so challenge fast or not at all. Legal advice is available to those who may have legal beefs, and stuff can be looked up on the net. Everyone is assumed to know the law (except for Her Majesty's Judges, but from them there is a right of appeal).
There should not be a limitation period for alleged murder, or alleged rape, or alleged sexual assault, and therefore there isn't one. Ditto being an actual Nazi, and such, although another Court (if it exists, which it doesn't) will soon be dealing with those who are left.
carinaman said:
I'm about 10 weeks out of time. Before the deadline was up I got a letter from a solicitor and the letter of waffle from the Chief Constable and my MP was in that 3 month window.
It's like speed limits and library books isn't it? The procedure is more important than what happened.
Depending on the circumstances a JR may not be the only avenue open to you.It's like speed limits and library books isn't it? The procedure is more important than what happened.
I don't know much about your beef with the feds but I am assuming you have legal advice/ representation ?
Red 4, Thank you. Though I've tried to address it during that time it seems I am out of it.
As the IPCC Appeal Forms mention JRs, how difficult would it be for the Appeal Form to also state 'BTW there's a three month time limit'? So they tell you about JRs, but not the time limit, but DO tell people that they have a month to appeal a decision by the IPCC. Half the story again or inconsistency?
As the IPCC Appeal Forms mention JRs, how difficult would it be for the Appeal Form to also state 'BTW there's a three month time limit'? So they tell you about JRs, but not the time limit, but DO tell people that they have a month to appeal a decision by the IPCC. Half the story again or inconsistency?
carinaman said:
Red 4, Thank you. Though I've tried to address it during that time it seems I am out of it.
As the IPCC Appeal Forms mention JRs, how difficult would it be for the Appeal Form to also state 'BTW there's a three month time limit'? So they tell you about JRs, but not the time limit, but DO tell people that they have a month to appeal a decision by the IPCC. Half the story again or inconsistency?
IME legal proceedings can be like a game of chess - strategy plays a big part.As the IPCC Appeal Forms mention JRs, how difficult would it be for the Appeal Form to also state 'BTW there's a three month time limit'? So they tell you about JRs, but not the time limit, but DO tell people that they have a month to appeal a decision by the IPCC. Half the story again or inconsistency?
It's best to have all your ducks in a row but if you don't know your way around the system that can be difficult - hence the need for lawyers.
Half the story or inconsistency ? I suppose the IPCC can only advise you about their procedures, it isn't their job to advise you on points of law, although if they mention JRs in their literature it probably isn't too big an ask to advise you of the time limit. Unfortunately, legally speaking, they don't need to.
Red 4, I still suspect you may be a good apple. There's a Venn Diagram with you, me, Derek Smith and former PC James Patrick in it. PC Patrick formerly of the Met isn't in the PH set on that Venn Diagram (AFAIK).
I think this could be a case of playing the rules when it suits, and urinating on them when it doesn't.
I think this could be a case of playing the rules when it suits, and urinating on them when it doesn't.
Breadvan72 said:
FEWER than two years ago, Goddammit!
Borrowed from: http://www.helpingwithmath.com/by_subject/integers...
I don't know why they called that diagram numberline_hort01? Just coincidence.
On a numberline, or chronological timeline it seems more natural to say 'less than'. It's the Math?
Why isn't it 'less than'? Similarly, greater and lesser than symbolised by </>?
'His new FF does nought to sixty in fewer than four seconds'? Does that sound right?
Looking at a chronological timeline it seems more natural to say 'His new FF does nought to sixty in less than four seconds'.
PHACKTS:
Every time an MGB is laid up on SORN, a cute disabled kid gets a really nice puppy.
Every time an MGB is scrapped, the kid gets new legs and can walk.
Assad says that he will step down and the war in Syria will end on the day when the last MGB goes in the bin. Putin adds that he will give back the Crimea and marry his gay lover if all the hats and mugs go as well.
MGB owners, you know what you have to do.
Every time an MGB is laid up on SORN, a cute disabled kid gets a really nice puppy.
Every time an MGB is scrapped, the kid gets new legs and can walk.
Assad says that he will step down and the war in Syria will end on the day when the last MGB goes in the bin. Putin adds that he will give back the Crimea and marry his gay lover if all the hats and mugs go as well.
MGB owners, you know what you have to do.
Breadvan72 said:
Nought to sixty in under fifteen minutes (it's an MGB).
They rot like apples, and like me, some can struggle to pull the skin off of a rice pudding.The 3 month limit for a JR starts from the date of the letter from the IPCC saying your appeal is rejected?
I sent the information to a Lawyer within 2 months of the rejection of the appeal to the IPCC and they took about a month to get back to me. The date of my letter to another lawyer is almost 4 months after the date of the letter from the IPCC rejecting my appeal.
The letter from the Chief Constable that my MP got months after I met with them, that was 3 quarters after the event, is near as damn it 1 month into that 3 month JR deadline. There are a few 'inconsistencies' in that letter. My MP seemed intent on keeping me away from the IPCC. After waiting almost two months without hearing anything after meeting my MP I went to the IPCC.
I don't know if my MP wanted it left with them to see if the police would trip themselves up. I could be seen that that's what happened but after several months. The content of the letter isn't that great.
Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 2nd April 21:19
Breadvan72 said:
PHACKTS:
Every time an MGB is laid up on SORN, a cute disabled kid gets a really nice puppy.
Every time an MGB is scrapped, the kid gets new legs and can walk.
Assad says that he will step down and the war in Syria will end on the day when the last MGB goes in the bin. Putin adds that he will give back the Crimea and marry his gay lover if all the hats and mugs go as well.
MGB owners, you know what you have to do.
Alas, to many, MGB ownership is a religion (a bit like worshiping Satan).Every time an MGB is laid up on SORN, a cute disabled kid gets a really nice puppy.
Every time an MGB is scrapped, the kid gets new legs and can walk.
Assad says that he will step down and the war in Syria will end on the day when the last MGB goes in the bin. Putin adds that he will give back the Crimea and marry his gay lover if all the hats and mugs go as well.
MGB owners, you know what you have to do.
To others it is an affliction (which has no cure).
I suspect peace on earth and healing the lame may have to wait.
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