45 mph national speed limit?
Discussion
Vipers said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I have no objection to people driving slowly IF they are prepared to actively assist faster people getting by.
Otherwise they are selfish beneath contempt.
There are some who dont feel comfortable driving at the limit, suppose an elderly gentlemen feels more comfortable at 55 instead of 60, then its better for him than to be doing 60.Otherwise they are selfish beneath contempt.
Moonhawk said:
Vipers said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I have no objection to people driving slowly IF they are prepared to actively assist faster people getting by.
Otherwise they are selfish beneath contempt.
There are some who dont feel comfortable driving at the limit, suppose an elderly gentlemen feels more comfortable at 55 instead of 60, then its better for him than to be doing 60.Otherwise they are selfish beneath contempt.
Maybe I'm just being simple but isn't the obvious solution (as has already been posted) to put actual numbers on the signs instead of some Da Vinci Code that you need to calculate on the fly as it were?
I've been in the exact same situation countless times too, not everyone has 300+ bhp to help execute a safe and short overtake and it leads to frustration and ultimately people chancing their luck on an overtake.
I can't think off hand of any other road signs that are as vague as this. If you ask a straw poll of people (not on here, we all know the answer) what the NSL is on a specific road local to you, you'll get a range of answers.
This is crying out to be made clear in the name of safety. How do we start one of those campaigns for No 10?
I've been in the exact same situation countless times too, not everyone has 300+ bhp to help execute a safe and short overtake and it leads to frustration and ultimately people chancing their luck on an overtake.
I can't think off hand of any other road signs that are as vague as this. If you ask a straw poll of people (not on here, we all know the answer) what the NSL is on a specific road local to you, you'll get a range of answers.
This is crying out to be made clear in the name of safety. How do we start one of those campaigns for No 10?
new666uk said:
Maybe I'm just being simple but isn't the obvious solution (as has already been posted) to put actual numbers on the signs instead of some Da Vinci Code that you need to calculate on the fly as it were?
I've been in the exact same situation countless times too, not everyone has 300+ bhp to help execute a safe and short overtake and it leads to frustration and ultimately people chancing their luck on an overtake.
I can't think off hand of any other road signs that are as vague as this. If you ask a straw poll of people (not on here, we all know the answer) what the NSL is on a specific road local to you, you'll get a range of answers.
This is crying out to be made clear in the name of safety. How do we start one of those campaigns for No 10?
How big a sign do you want?I've been in the exact same situation countless times too, not everyone has 300+ bhp to help execute a safe and short overtake and it leads to frustration and ultimately people chancing their luck on an overtake.
I can't think off hand of any other road signs that are as vague as this. If you ask a straw poll of people (not on here, we all know the answer) what the NSL is on a specific road local to you, you'll get a range of answers.
This is crying out to be made clear in the name of safety. How do we start one of those campaigns for No 10?
trashbat said:
new666uk said:
Maybe I'm just being simple but isn't the obvious solution (as has already been posted) to put actual numbers on the signs instead of some Da Vinci Code that you need to calculate on the fly as it were?
I've been in the exact same situation countless times too, not everyone has 300+ bhp to help execute a safe and short overtake and it leads to frustration and ultimately people chancing their luck on an overtake.
I can't think off hand of any other road signs that are as vague as this. If you ask a straw poll of people (not on here, we all know the answer) what the NSL is on a specific road local to you, you'll get a range of answers.
This is crying out to be made clear in the name of safety. How do we start one of those campaigns for No 10?
How big a sign do you want?I've been in the exact same situation countless times too, not everyone has 300+ bhp to help execute a safe and short overtake and it leads to frustration and ultimately people chancing their luck on an overtake.
I can't think off hand of any other road signs that are as vague as this. If you ask a straw poll of people (not on here, we all know the answer) what the NSL is on a specific road local to you, you'll get a range of answers.
This is crying out to be made clear in the name of safety. How do we start one of those campaigns for No 10?
For the majority, a number removes and ambiguity and should create a smoother flow as there are less interpretations of what the black diagonal means.
Anyway, someone has already launched a petition to No 10. For those interested in signing it's here:
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petit...
new666uk said:
OK, let's not get silly over this. Professional drivers (bus, HGV etc) are a smalled number than the majority and with their additional training and licencing are aware of the modifier their vehicle imposes on a numeric value.
For the majority, a number removes and ambiguity and should create a smoother flow as there are less interpretations of what the black diagonal means.
Anyway, someone has already launched a petition to No 10. For those interested in signing it's here:
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petit...
You could make the case that, say, HGV drivers are already confronted with 50 signs where in their vehicle they're only allowed to do 40. However this is going away in January because they'll be allowed to do 50. That leaves only the comparatively rare 60 sign and all the vehicles where you have to remember their lower limit in that case.For the majority, a number removes and ambiguity and should create a smoother flow as there are less interpretations of what the black diagonal means.
Anyway, someone has already launched a petition to No 10. For those interested in signing it's here:
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petit...
Then you're going to have to put up new signs at the start and end of every dual carriageway section, some of which are only a few hundred yards long. And that's not going to happen, so now all those DCs will be 60 - or less, using the chance to change them. Yeah, thanks for that, all because someone was too stupid to remember the law.
I agree that signage would need to be changed. We do pay an inordinate amount of vehicle and fuel tax so there should easily be something to divert back to improving the safety on the roads.
The logic of the NSL sign is fundamentally flawed - there are a range of national limits according to location etc (built up area, single cariage way etc) so you could say what aren't ALL speed related signs simply the black diagonal and drivers assess each based on it's location etc.
This should in theory reduce some of the country lane / A road head-on incidents as traffic is at a consistent speed.
The logic of the NSL sign is fundamentally flawed - there are a range of national limits according to location etc (built up area, single cariage way etc) so you could say what aren't ALL speed related signs simply the black diagonal and drivers assess each based on it's location etc.
This should in theory reduce some of the country lane / A road head-on incidents as traffic is at a consistent speed.
The problem I have with your idea, aside from the fact that it won't solve very much*, is that it continues an existing pattern of bringing standards down to the lowest common denominator, thus pandering to morons.
Accidents at a roundabout? Put up a barrier to block the sightlines so that everyone has to come to a complete stop.
A high speed accident on a road? Reduce the speed limit for everyone.
Don't know what the speed limit is? Put it on a big simple sign for idiots.
Not doing anything to improve driver education, not doing anything to enforce standards, not doing anything to encourage personal decision making or responsibility. More spoon feeding and making things simple. Well, driving's not simple. If you don't know what the speed limit is, you shouldn't be driving until you've figured it out.
[*]do you really think the majority of 'slow' drivers you encounter are doing so primarily out of concern that they're breaking the limit, and will suddenly go faster if only they knew?
Accidents at a roundabout? Put up a barrier to block the sightlines so that everyone has to come to a complete stop.
A high speed accident on a road? Reduce the speed limit for everyone.
Don't know what the speed limit is? Put it on a big simple sign for idiots.
Not doing anything to improve driver education, not doing anything to enforce standards, not doing anything to encourage personal decision making or responsibility. More spoon feeding and making things simple. Well, driving's not simple. If you don't know what the speed limit is, you shouldn't be driving until you've figured it out.
[*]do you really think the majority of 'slow' drivers you encounter are doing so primarily out of concern that they're breaking the limit, and will suddenly go faster if only they knew?
Also:
But, if we ignore that, then yes, there is a regularly-made case that drivers should be deciding their speed based on environmental conditions rather than delegating it to a blunt instrument decided by highway planners and posted on a sign. Sadly we're long past that degree of personal responsibility.
new666uk said:
The logic of the NSL sign is fundamentally flawed - there are a range of national limits according to location etc (built up area, single cariage way etc) so you could say what aren't ALL speed related signs simply the black diagonal and drivers assess each based on it's location etc.
Being able to identify whether there are (a) streetlights and (b) something more than paint in the middle of the road is not hard.But, if we ignore that, then yes, there is a regularly-made case that drivers should be deciding their speed based on environmental conditions rather than delegating it to a blunt instrument decided by highway planners and posted on a sign. Sadly we're long past that degree of personal responsibility.
I agree that signage would need to be changed. We do pay an inordinate amount of vehicle and fuel tax so there should easily be something to divert back to improving the safety on the roads.
The logic of the NSL sign is fundamentally flawed - there are a range of national limits according to location etc (built up area, single cariage way etc) so you could say what aren't ALL speed related signs simply the black diagonal and drivers assess each based on it's location etc.
This should in theory reduce some of the country lane / A road head-on incidents as traffic is at a consistent speed.
The logic of the NSL sign is fundamentally flawed - there are a range of national limits according to location etc (built up area, single cariage way etc) so you could say what aren't ALL speed related signs simply the black diagonal and drivers assess each based on it's location etc.
This should in theory reduce some of the country lane / A road head-on incidents as traffic is at a consistent speed.
new666uk said:
OK, let's not get silly over this. Professional drivers (bus, HGV etc) are a smalled number than the majority and with their additional training and licencing are aware of the modifier their vehicle imposes on a numeric value.
Driver training (professional or not) necessarily requires that you have to remember certain facts and figures. It's part of the responsibility of driving and is the reason we have the driving test.For the vast majority of car drivers - the NSL sign means either 60 or 70. If you are on a single carriageway it's 60 - on a DC or motorway it's 70. Virtually every other road you will come across will have a numeric speed limit sign. I have yet to see an NSL sign deployed in a built up street lit area where the expected speed is 30mph.
If a driver can't remember such a simple fact - then one might question whether they should be driving at all, what other highway code facts will they be unable to remember?
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 7th November 11:51
new666uk said:
I agree that signage would need to be changed. We do pay an inordinate amount of vehicle and fuel tax so there should easily be something to divert back to improving the safety on the roads.
There are far better things to be spending the money on IMO.Better road markings, better road studs on unlit roads, clearing junctions of overgrown bushes etc to aid visibility, better education (highway code on the national curriculum) etc.
B
For the vast majority of car drivers - the NSL sign means either 60 or 70. If you are on a single carriageway it's 60 - on a DC or motorway it's 70. Virtually every other road you will come across will have a numeric speed limit sign. I have yet to see an NSL sign deployed in a built up street lit area where the expected speed is 30mph.
If a driver can't remember such a simple fact - then one might question whether they should be driving at all, what other highway code facts will they be unable to remember?
Summed up nicely, that is the bones of it, well said.
And if anyone should recap on the contents of the HC, pay attention to box junctions and slip road priorities.
Moonhawk said:
new666uk said:
OK, let's not get silly over this. Professional drivers (bus, HGV etc) are a smalled number than the majority and with their additional training and licencing are aware of the modifier their vehicle imposes on a numeric value.
Driver training (professional or not) necessarily requires that you have to remember certain facts and figures. It's part of the responsibility of driving and is the reason we have the driving test.For the vast majority of car drivers - the NSL sign means either 60 or 70. If you are on a single carriageway it's 60 - on a DC or motorway it's 70. Virtually every other road you will come across will have a numeric speed limit sign. I have yet to see an NSL sign deployed in a built up street lit area where the expected speed is 30mph.
If a driver can't remember such a simple fact - then one might question whether they should be driving at all, what other highway code facts will they be unable to remember?
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 7th November 11:51
And if anyone should recap on the contents of the HC, pay attention to box junctions and slip road priorities.
Edited by Vipers on Friday 7th November 13:18
Edited by Vipers on Friday 7th November 13:19
WD39 said:
AA999 said:
People who follow slower cars and get annoyed by it should buy faster cars 
Yes, but those people should accept the fact that on that day, at that time, on that stretch of road, they will just have to drive slower for a while.
Yes, but those people should accept the fact that on that day, at that time, on that stretch of road, they will just have to drive slower for a while.
Edited by Johnnytheboy on Wednesday 12th November 18:13
People may drive slowly for all kinds of reasons. They may be lost and looking for a turning. They may be young and inexperienced (we all have to learn and develop our skills) or old and driving within their capabilities (just because someone is slowing down it doesn't mean they should be condemned to their armchairs for the rest of their lives so long as they aren't actually dangerous). There are drivers I encounter on the A59 who are quite fast on their own but they drive small, low powered cars and I've been behind them when they've had four passengers in and been incapable of more than 40mph at best up hills. Part of driving is a well executed overtake and you need the skill and the calmness to look for one and take the opportunity. If it never comes, so be it.
As for the idea of being late for an appointment and a slower driver causing a problem, there's an advanced driving quote that says, "Good driving starts in bed." It basically means you have to give yourself enough time to complete a journey calmly and safely accounting for delays so you don't need to drive flat out everywhere to make your appointment.
What I do have a problem with is drivers who play silly beggars when you're overtaking because they think overtaking is dangerous and want to make it a self fulfilling prophecy and the situation we have now where those who think 50mph or 40mph or below really is the safest maximum speed and they're the ones dictating the limits.
You overtake them, they do something to make it a scary and dangerous experience and then they fire off a letter to the local authority and their local councilor and have a campaign to lower the limit to deal with dangerous maniacs like you.
We all have to share the roads, some of us drive faster than others, we probably drive fast sometimes and slow other times depending on the situation. What we need to do is learn to cooperate and not believe that our speed at the time is automatically the correct speed everyone should be driving at.
As for the idea of being late for an appointment and a slower driver causing a problem, there's an advanced driving quote that says, "Good driving starts in bed." It basically means you have to give yourself enough time to complete a journey calmly and safely accounting for delays so you don't need to drive flat out everywhere to make your appointment.
What I do have a problem with is drivers who play silly beggars when you're overtaking because they think overtaking is dangerous and want to make it a self fulfilling prophecy and the situation we have now where those who think 50mph or 40mph or below really is the safest maximum speed and they're the ones dictating the limits.
You overtake them, they do something to make it a scary and dangerous experience and then they fire off a letter to the local authority and their local councilor and have a campaign to lower the limit to deal with dangerous maniacs like you.
We all have to share the roads, some of us drive faster than others, we probably drive fast sometimes and slow other times depending on the situation. What we need to do is learn to cooperate and not believe that our speed at the time is automatically the correct speed everyone should be driving at.
new666uk said:
I agree that signage would need to be changed. We do pay an inordinate amount of vehicle and fuel tax so there should easily be something to divert back to improving the safety on the roads.
The logic of the NSL sign is fundamentally flawed - there are a range of national limits according to location etc (built up area, single cariage way etc) so you could say what aren't ALL speed related signs simply the black diagonal and drivers assess each based on it's location etc.
This should in theory reduce some of the country lane / A road head-on incidents as traffic is at a consistent speed.
Cant say I have ever heard or seen an NSL in a built up area, those are either 30 or 40, am I missing something?The logic of the NSL sign is fundamentally flawed - there are a range of national limits according to location etc (built up area, single cariage way etc) so you could say what aren't ALL speed related signs simply the black diagonal and drivers assess each based on it's location etc.
This should in theory reduce some of the country lane / A road head-on incidents as traffic is at a consistent speed.
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