GMP CC to be prosecuted for H&S breaches after man shot
Discussion
davidball]a Liga said:
Well, one out of two disappearing isn't a bad result 
BTW, the officers who have been criticised have been named in the inquiry.
Perhaps you should read more about the things you comment on for once.
Either way, I'm not sure most people are going to care too much about Mr Grainger so you'll have to rant to yourself (or the poor people who look after you):
as per usual.
Glad to hear that the officers have been named and shamed, if that happened more often perhaps police performance might improve.
Do you count yourself amongst those who approve of extra judicial executions?
It is a slippery slope to state sanctioned death squads.
What a fBTW, the officers who have been criticised have been named in the inquiry.
Perhaps you should read more about the things you comment on for once.
Either way, I'm not sure most people are going to care too much about Mr Grainger so you'll have to rant to yourself (or the poor people who look after you):
as per usual.
Glad to hear that the officers have been named and shamed, if that happened more often perhaps police performance might improve.
Do you count yourself amongst those who approve of extra judicial executions?
It is a slippery slope to state sanctioned death squads.
king moron you are. pavarotti1980 said:
davidball]a Liga said:
Well, one out of two disappearing isn't a bad result
BTW, the officers who have been criticised have been named in the inquiry.
Perhaps you should read more about the things you comment on for once.
Either way, I'm not sure most people are going to care too much about Mr Grainger so you'll have to rant to yourself (or the poor people who look after you):
as per usual.
Glad to hear that the officers have been named and shamed, if that happened more often perhaps police performance might improve.
Do you count yourself amongst those who approve of extra judicial executions?
It is a slippery slope to state sanctioned death squads.
What a fBTW, the officers who have been criticised have been named in the inquiry.
Perhaps you should read more about the things you comment on for once.
Either way, I'm not sure most people are going to care too much about Mr Grainger so you'll have to rant to yourself (or the poor people who look after you):
as per usual.
Glad to hear that the officers have been named and shamed, if that happened more often perhaps police performance might improve.
Do you count yourself amongst those who approve of extra judicial executions?
It is a slippery slope to state sanctioned death squads.
king moron you are. La Liga said:
The report is a beast: https://www.graingerinquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uplo...
Teague's reference to Nathan Jessup is priceless.
Tango13 said:
pavarotti1980 said:
davidball]a Liga said:
Well, one out of two disappearing isn't a bad result
BTW, the officers who have been criticised have been named in the inquiry.
Perhaps you should read more about the things you comment on for once.
Either way, I'm not sure most people are going to care too much about Mr Grainger so you'll have to rant to yourself (or the poor people who look after you):
as per usual.
Glad to hear that the officers have been named and shamed, if that happened more often perhaps police performance might improve.
Do you count yourself amongst those who approve of extra judicial executions?
It is a slippery slope to state sanctioned death squads.
What a fBTW, the officers who have been criticised have been named in the inquiry.
Perhaps you should read more about the things you comment on for once.
Either way, I'm not sure most people are going to care too much about Mr Grainger so you'll have to rant to yourself (or the poor people who look after you):
as per usual.
Glad to hear that the officers have been named and shamed, if that happened more often perhaps police performance might improve.
Do you count yourself amongst those who approve of extra judicial executions?
It is a slippery slope to state sanctioned death squads.
king moron you are. 'Strange behavior', if that's not too insulting for you.
As XCP says, I'm also not a police officer (although I left, didn't retire).
Red Devil said:
Teague's reference to Nathan Jessup is priceless.
Indeed. One for some of the people who don't live in the real world to ponder upon: Inquiry said:
“We live in a world that has walls, and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns.”1 The defence of the British public against terrorism and other forms of organised crime depends upon the vigilance, skill and bravery of armed police officers, all of them volunteers. Yet the burdens we lay on those who protect us are sometimes so inconsistent as to be barely reconcilable. As the mortal menace posed by armed criminals continues to grow, we expect more men and women to volunteer for firearms duties. At the same time, we require any agent of the state who uses lethal force to submit to an intensive and gruelling process of forensic scrutiny that may culminate in a prosecution for murder. We can hardly blame those who say with Aaron Sorkin’s memorable stage character, Colonel Nathan Jessep, “I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I’d prefer you just said ‘thank you’ and went on your way.”2
Red Devil said:
La Liga said:
The report is a beast: https://www.graingerinquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uplo...
Teague's reference to Nathan Jessup is priceless.Yes it’s sort of bad he was killed whilst unarmed but he wasn’t such an innocent guy and might have been armed next day to commit a robbery and might of ended up killing someone else who was completely innocent.
If he wasn’t involved in crime this would never of happened.
I feel sorry for armed police having to make that split second decision, I don’t think any really want to kill someone ( although a lot of these criminals need it ), and as has been said it’s ok these inquiry’s by people reading and looking at evidence from the comfort of an office rather than in that moment when it can be you or them who is shot. If people weren’t involved in criminal activity’s they aren’t likely to be shot.
It’s annoying that the police have to answer to everything they do and criminals think themselves to be above the law and do what they want.
Should go back to when police where able to dish out a bit of justice to everyone including teens who could get a slap or something for doing something. Maybe kids etc might think a little bit more and more likely to have a little respect for police and the general public.
If he wasn’t involved in crime this would never of happened.
I feel sorry for armed police having to make that split second decision, I don’t think any really want to kill someone ( although a lot of these criminals need it ), and as has been said it’s ok these inquiry’s by people reading and looking at evidence from the comfort of an office rather than in that moment when it can be you or them who is shot. If people weren’t involved in criminal activity’s they aren’t likely to be shot.
It’s annoying that the police have to answer to everything they do and criminals think themselves to be above the law and do what they want.
Should go back to when police where able to dish out a bit of justice to everyone including teens who could get a slap or something for doing something. Maybe kids etc might think a little bit more and more likely to have a little respect for police and the general public.
another criminal removed from the streets. Permenantly in this case.
People can hardly call our cops trigger happy - just look at the USA to see how far the opposite our armed cops really are.
I have no problem with an armed cop shooting dead an unarmed man when he has reasonable belief the man is a threat from a hidden or concealed weapon. In this case he was non compliant and looked like he may have been getting a weapon from the glovebox. I think it is perfectly reasonable for the cop to blow the away at this point.
I dont think it is reasonable to wait for a weapon to be exposed or fired before an officer takes action to defend himself or others.
The consequence of that is that inevitably occasionally sometimes an unarmed person gets shot.
I can live with that and prefer it that way round to cops or other people getting shot by the criminal before the police act.
People can hardly call our cops trigger happy - just look at the USA to see how far the opposite our armed cops really are.
I have no problem with an armed cop shooting dead an unarmed man when he has reasonable belief the man is a threat from a hidden or concealed weapon. In this case he was non compliant and looked like he may have been getting a weapon from the glovebox. I think it is perfectly reasonable for the cop to blow the
away at this point. I dont think it is reasonable to wait for a weapon to be exposed or fired before an officer takes action to defend himself or others.
The consequence of that is that inevitably occasionally sometimes an unarmed person gets shot.
I can live with that and prefer it that way round to cops or other people getting shot by the criminal before the police act.
Psycho Warren said:
I have no problem with an armed cop shooting dead an unarmed man when he has reasonable belief the man is a threat from a hidden or concealed weapon. In this case he was non compliant and looked like he may have been getting a weapon from the glovebox. I think it is perfectly reasonable for the cop to blow the away at this point.
The issue here is that Q9 arrived at his honest, but mistaken, belief in no small part due to faulty intelligence and departmental management deficiencies within GMP. away at this point.Teague is damning in his critcism - see paragraphs 10.35 to 10.41 (pp 301 & 302).
Psycho Warren said:
I dont think it is reasonable to wait for a weapon to be exposed or fired before an officer takes action to defend himself or others.
The consequence of that is that inevitably occasionally sometimes an unarmed person gets shot.
I can live with that and prefer it that way round to cops or other people getting shot by the criminal before the police act.
Quite, but first you need to be pretty sure that you are actually dealing with people who are likely to be armed.The consequence of that is that inevitably occasionally sometimes an unarmed person gets shot.
I can live with that and prefer it that way round to cops or other people getting shot by the criminal before the police act.
In the extant case that was incorrect See paragraph 1.61 (p 18).
La Liga said:
Indeed.
You don't want armed officers primed with the information someone is likely to be armed when they're not.
Neatly summing up the whole problem in this case. The poor intelligence leading up to the stop and the actions of the remote commanders of the operation smacks of the De Menenzes debacle.You don't want armed officers primed with the information someone is likely to be armed when they're not.
ElectricPics said:
La Liga said:
Indeed.
You don't want armed officers primed with the information someone is likely to be armed when they're not.
Neatly summing up the whole problem in this case. The poor intelligence leading up to the stop and the actions of the remote commanders of the operation smacks of the De Menenzes debacle.You don't want armed officers primed with the information someone is likely to be armed when they're not.
'Q9 did not act out of malice, nor did he panic. He made a catastrophic but genuine
mistake, the roots of which lay mainly – but not exclusively – in the ineptitude with
which his superiors had planned and briefed that day’s operation. He and his fellow
AFOs were badly let down by their commanders.'
and later
]The combined effect of this sorry litany of negligence was to predispose Q9 to assume
the worst in the event of a confrontation with the Audi’s occupants, and to misinterpret and overreact to any sign of non-compliant conduct. Nevertheless, not all firearmsofficers in his position would have fired when he did.'
Edited by Bigends on Monday 15th July 23:14
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