Getting out of the BiB's way etiquette.
Discussion
Johnnytheboy said:
The correct analogy would be:
Would it be a fair assumption that all those on this thread who say they wouldn't pass a red light camera for an emergency service vehicle, even if it was safe, for fear of prosecution, also never exceed the speed limit past a camera when it's safe for the same reason?
If I knew there was no chance that I was being watched on camera I probably would go through a red light for an ambulance etc.
Your analogy would be correct if that is what some posters on here were saying, but they aren't. They are stating they would never pass a red light, regardless of whether or not there is a camera, because that is the advice from government, blue light aware, highway code etc.Would it be a fair assumption that all those on this thread who say they wouldn't pass a red light camera for an emergency service vehicle, even if it was safe, for fear of prosecution, also never exceed the speed limit past a camera when it's safe for the same reason?
If I knew there was no chance that I was being watched on camera I probably would go through a red light for an ambulance etc.
Cat
Thing is, I'm pretty good at looking out for speed traps and cameras. If I'm honest I'm less good at knowing if some kind of CCTV/camera is looking at me when I'm sat at a red light.
I'm not averse to breaking the speed limit, whereas I don't make a habit of driving through red lights, hence my different awareness of enforcement.
Hence my precautionary principle - I'd only get out of the way at a red light if I was sure I wasn't on camera.
Whereas I've fairly dramatically hoofed it to get out of the way of an EV on the open road before.
I'm not averse to breaking the speed limit, whereas I don't make a habit of driving through red lights, hence my different awareness of enforcement.
Hence my precautionary principle - I'd only get out of the way at a red light if I was sure I wasn't on camera.
Whereas I've fairly dramatically hoofed it to get out of the way of an EV on the open road before.
The discussion about whether or not to go through a red light should be irrelevant. An emergency driver should not be forcing others to break the law regardless of the call.
On my course if you were approaching a red light then you were explicitly told to either cancel all sirens and lights and wait for them to change unless you had a route through without forcing others over. The same with solid white lines.
On my course if you were approaching a red light then you were explicitly told to either cancel all sirens and lights and wait for them to change unless you had a route through without forcing others over. The same with solid white lines.
TheBear said:
The discussion about whether or not to go through a red light should be irrelevant. An emergency driver should not be forcing others to break the law regardless of the call.
On my course if you were approaching a red light then you were explicitly told to either cancel all sirens and lights and wait for them to change unless you had a route through without forcing others over. The same with solid white lines.
Eaxctly and in the main this happens however avon and somerset arv and rpu seem despite their force signing up to blue light aware to bully drivers through red lights. I have seen it on a number of ocassions. Had one doing it to a car next to me cycling the tones by hitting the horn repeatedly.On my course if you were approaching a red light then you were explicitly told to either cancel all sirens and lights and wait for them to change unless you had a route through without forcing others over. The same with solid white lines.
Problem is some folk on here have shown they view that as a direction to go and then panic and pop into the path of others its all a bit silly to me.
Turns out in the case above they were on their way to serve a drugs warrent so not life or death.
Edited by jbsportstech on Monday 3rd March 16:03
Wolfer said:
I had one on Saturday, where I was coming to a traffic lighted junction with cameras I noticed after the fact.
The car at the head of the queue at the lights stopped, driver and passenger jumped out and were panicking, long story short, looks like their rear passenger had a fit, stopped breathing, Police were brilliant, managed to get to the guy, and were performing CPR until the ambulance / heli arrived. While this was happening, another few officers came and started to deal with the traffic so they could close the road.
At this point I will say, we were more concerned about the poor chap being revived than this particular traffic issue, just curious here thats all.
So a while later, the police started to deal with the traffic at the junction, and obviously lights couldn't be relied on with what was going on. They did a stellar job and got the remaining cars(including us) from the off-road and onto the main road so we could carry on with our journey.
At the point I was waved through, and onto the main road, the lights for us were on Red, and as I said thanks to the officer, and good luck, I noticed the cameras at the junction.
So I would guess I would get a ticket now for going through on red, is that correct?
As I say, more concerned about the chap being ok, just curious.
Cheers
Make a note of the time, day, date and place. If you get a FPN through the post reply with a simple statement of fact, giving the fact that the police officer was in uniform (not that this matters in law, but it shows them that it was a police officer) and state how you knew the direction was to cross the junction contrary to the red light. I might also consider phoning the police, asking for the reference/serial/CAD number of the incident and including this in the reply.The car at the head of the queue at the lights stopped, driver and passenger jumped out and were panicking, long story short, looks like their rear passenger had a fit, stopped breathing, Police were brilliant, managed to get to the guy, and were performing CPR until the ambulance / heli arrived. While this was happening, another few officers came and started to deal with the traffic so they could close the road.
At this point I will say, we were more concerned about the poor chap being revived than this particular traffic issue, just curious here thats all.
So a while later, the police started to deal with the traffic at the junction, and obviously lights couldn't be relied on with what was going on. They did a stellar job and got the remaining cars(including us) from the off-road and onto the main road so we could carry on with our journey.
At the point I was waved through, and onto the main road, the lights for us were on Red, and as I said thanks to the officer, and good luck, I noticed the cameras at the junction.
So I would guess I would get a ticket now for going through on red, is that correct?
As I say, more concerned about the chap being ok, just curious.
Cheers
You have committed not offence so stick to your guns.
It's just one of those things where the rules have to say things in a certain way so everyone is legally protected.
We certainly don't want someone panicking and jumping a red light into another car then trying to blame the police.
But, sensibly and safely crossing a red light is just fine.
But, it's impractical to word that in law, so the law is worded to deal with the lowest level of ability.
If I cross a red light I do so because I decided it was the right thing to do, not because a cop said it was safe - if you see the distinction.
So we have this situation.
Some people move.
Some people don't.
Some people still don't move even when being requested to.
It's interesting, I think, that those who don't move seem be those who have shown a dislike of the police on other threads, and those who do move tend to be the more pragmatic sensible posters.
We certainly don't want someone panicking and jumping a red light into another car then trying to blame the police.
But, sensibly and safely crossing a red light is just fine.
But, it's impractical to word that in law, so the law is worded to deal with the lowest level of ability.
If I cross a red light I do so because I decided it was the right thing to do, not because a cop said it was safe - if you see the distinction.
So we have this situation.
Some people move.
Some people don't.
Some people still don't move even when being requested to.
It's interesting, I think, that those who don't move seem be those who have shown a dislike of the police on other threads, and those who do move tend to be the more pragmatic sensible posters.
Snowboy said:
It's interesting, I think, that those who don't move seem be those who have shown a dislike of the police on other threads, and those who do move tend to be the more pragmatic sensible posters.
Bunkum. This thread has been about the issue and you're turning it into one of personalities which is pretty pathetic. Link to a thread in which I haver expressed a dislike for the police if you can.I also have no strong opinions about the police but I am happy to admit to disliking non-police enforcement of traffic offences.
Which is why I would have little fear of a policeman doing me for driving through a red light for him. It would be all the other ways I might get nabbed that worry me.
Which is why I would have little fear of a policeman doing me for driving through a red light for him. It would be all the other ways I might get nabbed that worry me.
rohrl said:
Snowboy said:
It's interesting, I think, that those who don't move seem be those who have shown a dislike of the police on other threads, and those who do move tend to be the more pragmatic sensible posters.
Bunkum. This thread has been about the issue and you're turning it into one of personalities which is pretty pathetic. Link to a thread in which I haver expressed a dislike for the police if you can.Perhaps I over generalised a little.
Greendubber said:
Id love to know how much evidence was flushed as they all turn up on blue lights.
Operational hand grenade.
They have some serious issues as a force Operational hand grenade.
http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/s-yoke-police-s...
jbsportstech said:
Thefts theft, damned if they do and damned of they dont.jbsportstech said:
There is a public interests and 1.65 scotch egg does not need hours of policing spent on it.
So what is the required cost for the police to start getting involved?If she steals 1.65 each day, at what point had she stolen enough to be dealt with.
It's theft. Simple as. Not big time theft, but why should she get away with stealing her lunch? I don't.
jbsportstech said:
Greendubber said:
Thefts theft, damned if they do and damned of they dont.
There is a public interests and 1.65 scotch egg does not need hours of policing spent on it.jbsportstech said:
The issue the force, and indeed all forces, have is with the government demands.If the police had binned this NFA then can you think of the handle of any posters on PH who would have gone into criticising the police for not doing their job? I can think of quite a few.
For the habitual critics of the police, some the police don't win, others they don't win.
Makes you wonder who has the issues.
340600 said:
Of course it doesn't, but once a theft is reported the force is duty bound to investigate, no matter how trivial it may seem.
Honestly yes send a copper make out a crime ref but public enquiries,I once sat in a traffic jam and a traffic car passes me and I am tired and bring my hand up to my face. Anyway traffic car turns around lights up the engine wheels lights siren the lots and hot foots it's back through the Village wrong the side of the road causing bedlam.
Car disappears and I am left thinking what the hell.
Anyway get out the village and the police car pops out of lay-by and shoots up my tail. Driving a brand new ford demo focus about 11 years ago. Stops me and states that they were aware of an individual attempting to hide their identity back in the village with their hand on their face.
One guy keep saying I know us are you known to the police, I say know but I sold you and yr wife a new Mondeo a few months back I work at Taunton ford hence the car.
Light bulb. Let's me go
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