Parking Fines - CPM, BPA Approved...
Discussion
For the record Ive not been done. Whats the deal with these fines these days, am I right in thinking we cant ignore anymore...?
In my block of flats we have underground parking (No s
t sherlock) which has signs all over the place with those two names on it (CPM which is BPA approved). £100, or £60 if made in 14 days etc. We all have allocated parking. Except it seems few abide by it and park in other peoples spots. I'm not parked in my spot currently because its between two cars and have about 5cm to open my e92 's door. I'm actually seriously considering getting rid of the bimmer and buying a barge of some sort - a stter in fact so I can play door dings with the two cars next to mine, which is pretty gutting. Parking enforcement is due to come in soon.
We also have a problem with random people waiting for others to drive up and open the gates only to follow us in after and take advantage of free parking. Doesn't bother me but it seems to really get peoples backs up and I think thats why they are trying to get it all sorted.
Thanks all
EDIT:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
Those signs are in my block if that helps.
In my block of flats we have underground parking (No s
t sherlock) which has signs all over the place with those two names on it (CPM which is BPA approved). £100, or £60 if made in 14 days etc. We all have allocated parking. Except it seems few abide by it and park in other peoples spots. I'm not parked in my spot currently because its between two cars and have about 5cm to open my e92 's door. I'm actually seriously considering getting rid of the bimmer and buying a barge of some sort - a stter in fact so I can play door dings with the two cars next to mine, which is pretty gutting. Parking enforcement is due to come in soon. We also have a problem with random people waiting for others to drive up and open the gates only to follow us in after and take advantage of free parking. Doesn't bother me but it seems to really get peoples backs up and I think thats why they are trying to get it all sorted.
Thanks all
EDIT:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
Those signs are in my block if that helps.
Edited by OilBurnerSurrey on Wednesday 26th February 22:23
If you're in your alloted space (as per your lease) then your lease trumps any 'parking enforcement' anyway...
Otherwise (if you were parked elsewhere on site) firstly wait until CPM write to you (this costs them £2.50 at DVLA plus ink, paper, postage, envelope...).
Then make a weak appeal to CPM (along the lines of "I couldn't use my space because someone else was parked in it" or whatever the reason is) and asking for a POPLA code if your appeal is refused (this costs them £27+VAT each code). Their actual loss at this stage is the £2.50 for DVLA info, as you've already paid to park in that car park
.
Then make a strong appeal to POPLA "this £100/£60 is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss" but fill it out with details as to why - you'll win.
If you're parked in your own space as per your lease, wait for CPM to write then make a weak appeal "I am the landholder of the parking space involved" and asking for a POPLA code if the appeal is unsuccessful (they will say they are acting on behalf of the landholder - this'll be you then, can they show you their contract with you personally as the landholder??
they can't 
). Then make a strong appeal to POPLA making this point as well as the £100 etc not being a genuine pre-estimate etc as above (POPLA will allow the appeal on the second ground, I'll wager ).
If CPM are BPA-approved then they must offer the POPLA code if they don't allow your appeal (asking them is just a reminder)...
Otherwise (if you were parked elsewhere on site) firstly wait until CPM write to you (this costs them £2.50 at DVLA plus ink, paper, postage, envelope...).
Then make a weak appeal to CPM (along the lines of "I couldn't use my space because someone else was parked in it" or whatever the reason is) and asking for a POPLA code if your appeal is refused (this costs them £27+VAT each code). Their actual loss at this stage is the £2.50 for DVLA info, as you've already paid to park in that car park
.Then make a strong appeal to POPLA "this £100/£60 is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss" but fill it out with details as to why - you'll win.
If you're parked in your own space as per your lease, wait for CPM to write then make a weak appeal "I am the landholder of the parking space involved" and asking for a POPLA code if the appeal is unsuccessful (they will say they are acting on behalf of the landholder - this'll be you then, can they show you their contract with you personally as the landholder??
they can't ). Then make a strong appeal to POPLA making this point as well as the £100 etc not being a genuine pre-estimate etc as above (POPLA will allow the appeal on the second ground, I'll wager ).If CPM are BPA-approved then they must offer the POPLA code if they don't allow your appeal (asking them is just a reminder)...
OilBurnerSurrey said:
We also have a problem with random people waiting for others to drive up and open the gates only to follow us in after and take advantage of free parking. Doesn't bother me but it seems to really get peoples backs up and I think thats why they are trying to get it all sorted.
Thanks all
We used to have similar problems at a place I worked at ages ago. A lot of cars were vandalised. Problem seemed to stop.Thanks all
AIUI it was people working nearby who didn't want to pay to use an NCP car park.
Nice one thanks. I had a read over on MSE forums and advice seems to be the same. Except currently im not parked in my allocated space and have been parking in the same spot for over 6 months now. I guess the lease we have trumps me in that case...?
Say I get fined - possible because for 13 days I do not look at my car until I need to go to the shops (Home worker) - basically I HAVE to pay the fine? Seems from easily available advice on forums that CPM would know to include all the necessary information required to cover themselves? Or should I wait for them to write to me first as you said?
Anyway, I dont want to disrespect others by taking their spaces so it boils down to that over anything else but if I notice a space free and un used (like the one im in) then Ill continue to park in it.
Say I get fined - possible because for 13 days I do not look at my car until I need to go to the shops (Home worker) - basically I HAVE to pay the fine? Seems from easily available advice on forums that CPM would know to include all the necessary information required to cover themselves? Or should I wait for them to write to me first as you said?
Anyway, I dont want to disrespect others by taking their spaces so it boils down to that over anything else but if I notice a space free and un used (like the one im in) then Ill continue to park in it.
Countdown said:
We used to have similar problems at a place I worked at ages ago. A lot of cars were vandalised. Problem seemed to stop.
AIUI it was people working nearby who didn't want to pay to use an NCP car park.
For sure, Ive seen people wait until someone else comes along and opens the doors so they can go collect their car. Blatantly obvious. AIUI it was people working nearby who didn't want to pay to use an NCP car park.
Doesn't bother me really. I would never damage someones car either.
Is this still the case? Someone I know has just been done for not displaying a ticket in their own space down in the basement. It had fallen off the dash or something and now they have a ticket.
I've not had the misfortune or inconvenience of going through all this yet but it seems other residents have been done and have 'had' to pay up for this very reason......
May I add I am in fact OilBurnerSurrey the OP. Not sure whats going on with the usernames...
I've not had the misfortune or inconvenience of going through all this yet but it seems other residents have been done and have 'had' to pay up for this very reason......
May I add I am in fact OilBurnerSurrey the OP. Not sure whats going on with the usernames...
Edited by MikeG88 on Saturday 31st May 17:19
If it's your own space as per your lease, then it's the same - lease gazumps everything despite what the PPC [private parking company] (and even the management company) might say.
Initially, wait for a 'notice to keeper; this will have cost them £2.50.
Then appeal to the PPC along the lines of stating that the charge isn't a "genuine pre-estimate of loss" (GPEOL) and also put them to proof as to their contract with the landholder (that's you, but don't play the details of that card yet - as long as the parking space is specifically part of your lease ). There are other vague arguments such as the charge is punitive... refer to the car and driver in the third party - "the car was driven into the space", "the driver drove into the space" etc etc - don't admit to driving.
Then, when they refuse your appeal and have paid £27 for a POPLA appeal number for you (there is an alternative independent appeal body - IPC? - but I can't accurately recall it) make a stronger appeal that it is "your" space and you are the landholder (with evidence) and the PPC have no contract with you, plus their "charge" isn't a GPEOL (plus some other spurious appeal points?).
POPLA will certainly agree on the grounds of GPEOL (disregarding all other points
) and allow the appeal - losing the PPC around £30 all in 
...
If it goes further (to small claims court) - YOU are the landholder and have no contract with the PPC plus the 'charge' isn't a GPEOL (and some other points?), but I'd be looking to pepipoo for support on this (it is easily winnable...) .
Initially, wait for a 'notice to keeper; this will have cost them £2.50.
Then appeal to the PPC along the lines of stating that the charge isn't a "genuine pre-estimate of loss" (GPEOL) and also put them to proof as to their contract with the landholder (that's you, but don't play the details of that card yet
- as long as the parking space is specifically part of your lease ). There are other vague arguments such as the charge is punitive... refer to the car and driver in the third party - "the car was driven into the space", "the driver drove into the space" etc etc - don't admit to driving.Then, when they refuse your appeal and have paid £27 for a POPLA appeal number for you (there is an alternative independent appeal body - IPC? - but I can't accurately recall it) make a stronger appeal that it is "your" space and you are the landholder (with evidence) and the PPC have no contract with you, plus their "charge" isn't a GPEOL (plus some other spurious appeal points?).
POPLA will certainly agree on the grounds of GPEOL (disregarding all other points
) and allow the appeal - losing the PPC around £30 all in ...If it goes further (to small claims court) - YOU are the landholder and have no contract with the PPC plus the 'charge' isn't a GPEOL (and some other points?), but I'd be looking to pepipoo for support on this (it is easily winnable...)
.Ok now I do have a problem.
I have not been parked in my space for a year, but the one next to it with my legit permit displayed. So my actual allocated space has been free all this time.
So.... I've let my mate park in my space as he has been coming to the gym with me. Ive printed him out a copy of my permit and hes displayed it and finally got a ticket tonight. I didnt. But he has.
Wondering what chance he has of getting round it - If any?
Advice appreciated so long as it doesn't involve telling me not to scan permits and give out to friends.
I have not been parked in my space for a year, but the one next to it with my legit permit displayed. So my actual allocated space has been free all this time.
So.... I've let my mate park in my space as he has been coming to the gym with me. Ive printed him out a copy of my permit and hes displayed it and finally got a ticket tonight. I didnt. But he has.
Wondering what chance he has of getting round it - If any?
Advice appreciated so long as it doesn't involve telling me not to scan permits and give out to friends.
So a vehicle was parked in your allocated space with your permission, but no displayed permit?
Ignoring the fact that your car was parked in another space, there was no actual problem with the vehicle parked in your space so does this fall under the concept referred to above, that lease gazumps everything regardless of what the private company or management company say?
Ignoring the fact that your car was parked in another space, there was no actual problem with the vehicle parked in your space so does this fall under the concept referred to above, that lease gazumps everything regardless of what the private company or management company say?
GoodDoc said:
So a vehicle was parked in your allocated space with your permission, but no displayed permit?
Ignoring the fact that your car was parked in another space, there was no actual problem with the vehicle parked in your space so does this fall under the concept referred to above, that lease gazumps everything regardless of what the private company or management company say?
Mates car was in my space, with my permission, displaying a photocoped version of my permit. Hes been done on the website for displaying an invalid permit. Thats the only thing that worries me. Else I wouldnt have bumped this thread and id be waiting for the NTK to come through and be following the process over on MSE. Ignoring the fact that your car was parked in another space, there was no actual problem with the vehicle parked in your space so does this fall under the concept referred to above, that lease gazumps everything regardless of what the private company or management company say?
Thanks both. Good excuse actually - "forgot my permit as was borrowing a friends car" but it sounds like it would be easier to just follow the standardised process over on MSE because I know CPM wont give a s
t and decline any appeal anyway, meaning ill have to go through POPLA anyways. aw51 121565 said:
If it's your own space as per your lease, then it's the same - lease gazumps everything despite what the PPC [private parking company] (and even the management company) might say.
Initially, wait for a 'notice to keeper; this will have cost them £2.50.
Then appeal to the PPC along the lines of stating that the charge isn't a "genuine pre-estimate of loss" (GPEOL) and also put them to proof as to their contract with the landholder (that's you, but don't play the details of that card yet - as long as the parking space is specifically part of your lease ). There are other vague arguments such as the charge is punitive... refer to the car and driver in the third party - "the car was driven into the space", "the driver drove into the space" etc etc - don't admit to driving.
Then, when they refuse your appeal and have paid £27 for a POPLA appeal number for you (there is an alternative independent appeal body - IPC? - but I can't accurately recall it) make a stronger appeal that it is "your" space and you are the landholder (with evidence) and the PPC have no contract with you, plus their "charge" isn't a GPEOL (plus some other spurious appeal points?).
POPLA will certainly agree on the grounds of GPEOL (disregarding all other points ) and allow the appeal - losing the PPC around £30 all in ...
If it goes further (to small claims court) - YOU are the landholder and have no contract with the PPC plus the 'charge' isn't a GPEOL (and some other points?), but I'd be looking to pepipoo for support on this (it is easily winnable...) .
He may be the landholder but he is not the landowner. That will be the freeholder. The OP will need to check the exact terms of his lease very carefully. There is also the added complication of who the managing agents (with whom the PPC will have contracted rather than individual tenants) are working for. Is it the leaseholders under RTM or the freeholder?Initially, wait for a 'notice to keeper; this will have cost them £2.50.
Then appeal to the PPC along the lines of stating that the charge isn't a "genuine pre-estimate of loss" (GPEOL) and also put them to proof as to their contract with the landholder (that's you, but don't play the details of that card yet
- as long as the parking space is specifically part of your lease ). There are other vague arguments such as the charge is punitive... refer to the car and driver in the third party - "the car was driven into the space", "the driver drove into the space" etc etc - don't admit to driving.Then, when they refuse your appeal and have paid £27 for a POPLA appeal number for you (there is an alternative independent appeal body - IPC? - but I can't accurately recall it) make a stronger appeal that it is "your" space and you are the landholder (with evidence) and the PPC have no contract with you, plus their "charge" isn't a GPEOL (plus some other spurious appeal points?).
POPLA will certainly agree on the grounds of GPEOL (disregarding all other points
) and allow the appeal - losing the PPC around £30 all in ...If it goes further (to small claims court) - YOU are the landholder and have no contract with the PPC plus the 'charge' isn't a GPEOL (and some other points?), but I'd be looking to pepipoo for support on this (it is easily winnable...)
.It is a very common problem in leasehold developments when a PPC is invited in. Nobody thinks to check what terms the managing agents are signing up to. It is essential that the agents have the power to demand that the PPC cancel a PCN in appropriate circumstances without the hassle of the tenant(s) having to faff around with a POPLA appeal.
MikeGoodwin said:
GoodDoc said:
So a vehicle was parked in your allocated space with your permission, but no displayed permit?
Ignoring the fact that your car was parked in another space, there was no actual problem with the vehicle parked in your space so does this fall under the concept referred to above, that lease gazumps everything regardless of what the private company or management company say?
Mates car was in my space, with my permission, displaying a photocoped version of my permit. Hes been done on the website for displaying an invalid permit. Thats the only thing that worries me. Else I wouldnt have bumped this thread and id be waiting for the NTK to come through and be following the process over on MSE. Ignoring the fact that your car was parked in another space, there was no actual problem with the vehicle parked in your space so does this fall under the concept referred to above, that lease gazumps everything regardless of what the private company or management company say?
Thanks both. Good excuse actually - "forgot my permit as was borrowing a friends car" but it sounds like it would be easier to just follow the standardised process over on MSE because I know CPM wont give a s
t and decline any appeal anyway, meaning ill have to go through POPLA anyways. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff