You Must Never Give BIBs a Bollocking In Public Ever
Discussion
carinaman said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-276394...
The Met said PC Birks had been suspended "in the interests of allowing a full reinvestigation".
Sean Rigg died in August 2008 so not quite six years ago.
How long will it be before the family of Thomas Orchard, a schizophrenic killed in custody in October 2012 get closure?
I doubt when the CCTV of what happened to the late Thomas Orchard is released into the public domain it will be as offensive as this:
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/cr...
'killed in custody' Really. You don't half type some rubbish don't you?The Met said PC Birks had been suspended "in the interests of allowing a full reinvestigation".
Sean Rigg died in August 2008 so not quite six years ago.
How long will it be before the family of Thomas Orchard, a schizophrenic killed in custody in October 2012 get closure?
I doubt when the CCTV of what happened to the late Thomas Orchard is released into the public domain it will be as offensive as this:
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/cr...
Edited by carinaman on Friday 30th May 19:45
XCP said:
carinaman said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-276394...
The Met said PC Birks had been suspended "in the interests of allowing a full reinvestigation".
Sean Rigg died in August 2008 so not quite six years ago.
How long will it be before the family of Thomas Orchard, a schizophrenic killed in custody in October 2012 get closure?
I doubt when the CCTV of what happened to the late Thomas Orchard is released into the public domain it will be as offensive as this:
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/cr...
'killed in custody' Really. You don't half type some rubbish don't you?The Met said PC Birks had been suspended "in the interests of allowing a full reinvestigation".
Sean Rigg died in August 2008 so not quite six years ago.
How long will it be before the family of Thomas Orchard, a schizophrenic killed in custody in October 2012 get closure?
I doubt when the CCTV of what happened to the late Thomas Orchard is released into the public domain it will be as offensive as this:
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/cr...
Edited by carinaman on Friday 30th May 19:45
You've noticed that too. Every time this and the other anti-police threads start up again after well deserved breaks you can guarantee it's CM with his links to mostly irrelevant stuff.
Mk3Spitfire said:
MGZTV8 said:
question is, are you naïve enough... a cover for screwing the property?
And it would be the same people starting threads along the lines of "BIB foiled by man claiming to be removing asbestos! Are they really that stupid?!"Might have done if the time was around midnight and it was pitch black . Next day market traders found more than a few things missing.
Spitfire, from postings I'd say you have a collar number, so you might appreciate this one as well as our local lad did.
At one notorious road junction near our local football ground I was following a police van-very ordinary one- no blues etc. It was indicating right, so I positioned my car to get into the left lane. I'd just moved alongside,when van indicated left, and cut me up, with my front bumper getting a nice portion of white paint, before the driver realised I'd sounded horn. Out of the passenger side came an Inspector, who explained he'd ordered the driver to change lanes in response to a radio call. Locally at the time ,our area had a more than good relationship with police and as it was only a T cut job on an older car,I shrugged it off. ( Inspector could have been officious and called in Traffic etc etc ,so I laughed it off). Our local beat bloke had a standing offer from a few houses that if he needed toilet facilities, he was welcome to ask, and one house had a standing offer of a cup of tea and biccies (no Donuts ,sorry). I was visiting that neighbour one day after and made his day with the tale. his response was that he'd have made the Inspector almost kiss his ass.
Exactly! Damned either way!
Thanks for you post.
Relations with the "local" bobby in small towns is still generally very good. Unfortunately, the larger the town, the less time your local will have to mingle, and so that trusting relationship is lost somewhat. It's a shame.
You do need to get donughts though. I hate the stereotypes....but I love donugts. I mean I REALLY love them.
Thanks for you post.
Relations with the "local" bobby in small towns is still generally very good. Unfortunately, the larger the town, the less time your local will have to mingle, and so that trusting relationship is lost somewhat. It's a shame.
You do need to get donughts though. I hate the stereotypes....but I love donugts. I mean I REALLY love them.
get the f
k out, you fXCP said:
'killed in custody' Really. You don't half type some rubbish don't you?
Thomas Orchard died in hospital. He was taken from the police station to the hospital.It's irrelevant?
Sean Riggs was mentally ill. Thomas Orchard was mentally ill. Kelly Thomas was mentally ill.
They all died after coming into contact with the police.
Perhaps they all had a previously undiagnosed allergic reaction to police uniforms?
On the TWT Radio 4 News that covered PC Andrew Birks's suspension to stop him leaving through resignation rather than face a misconduct hearing, they mentioned the Met statement on it and the announcer said that PC Birks may not have had anything to do with the death of Sean Rigg.
They then said the police may be getting the message that the public are no longer willing to accept the police playing legal wrangling to get themselves off of the hook.
As Sean Rigg's mother said there's a greater public good for her threatening to take legal action to stop Birks's resigning as a possible way to avoid censure.
I'm not sure how the view that the public are less willing to tolerate the police playing procedures and the legal system to clear themselves sits with one of the officers involved in the death of Kelly Thomas being asked to leave a restaurant as the other customers weren't happy at the death of Kelly Thomas or the way the police officers were let off in court.
http://filmingcops.com/cop-who-killed-kelly-thomas...
I've gone irrelevant?
Was it Mk3Spitfire that said that the police training could be reduced and the pink fluffy stuff could be cut out?
How many officers were involved the day Thomas Orchard was taken into custody? Ten? A dozen? How many were in the cell?
We have a BiB saying police training can be reduced, but as the sister of the late Thomas Orchard said, a ten year old knows not to put a plastic bag over someone's head so how many police officers failed to realise putting a restraint belt around someone's head possibly wasn't the best of ideas?
How were the officers to know as the police training didn't tell them placing such a belt around someone's head may cause them difficulties breathing?
How many of those officers had had restraint training so they'd have known about how restraint holds can be harmful to detainees? When did they have that training refreshed?
The IPCC have told the family of Thomas Orchard it'll be years before they get to the bottom of it and the facts.
It's the fault of the Thomas Orchard, or his fault he was taken into police custody and died a week later? It's his fault for being mentally ill? It's nothing to do with the officers he came into contact with?
PC Andrew Birks has had his resignation thwarted by suspension. PC James Patrick resigned rather than face police discipline for appearing in front of the Public Administration Select Committee and telling them how the police record crimes and therefore the crime statistics. He was taken down a disciplinary process for telling the truth. When this Chief Constable was discovered to have had dodgy crime stats by his PCC he wasn't taken down the police disciplinary route was he?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-22951540
So a PC tells the truth they face police discipline. A Chief Constable is discovered to have 10% of crimes misreported and he doesn't face discipline?
The PC intended to tell the truth, but the Chief Constable didn't know his crime stats were wrong?
It's irrelevant? It's difficult to tell whether the Bob Hoskins alike Security Man throwing his pot belly around with Charlie Veitch in Manchester is a police officer or not as the police can seem to make it up as they go along.
Or 'Improv' as Thesps call it.
Edited by carinaman on Friday 30th May 23:33
These are serious cases, but you have a knack of making points that make no sense and lurching off into obscure irrelevance.
If you want to debate deaths in custody, fine, but try and tone down the stream of consciousness wanderings, and we might be able to understand what point you are trying to make.
If you want to debate deaths in custody, fine, but try and tone down the stream of consciousness wanderings, and we might be able to understand what point you are trying to make.
Sean Riggs was mentally ill. Thomas Orchard was mentally ill. Kelly Thomas was mentally ill.
Precisely. Cops get very little training in dealing with the mentally ill and yet are the first to have to deal with them in public, often when they've not taken their mess for days or weeks. Protocol generally says that mental health professionals should deal, seldom happens. It also says that they should be transported in an ambulance with cops following. What a laugh, seldom an ambulance to assist so the cops have to decide whether to carry on dealing in a public place or try to get them off to a place of safety...the mental health unit, themselves. This is often in a van. In a cage in a van generally. So we now have a wound up in-medicated mentally ill person who often dislikes authority due to every time they encounter them, they seem to get sectioned, sat in a cage on their way yet again to being locked up. So they kick off, so the cops follow protocol and go straight to the cells...so the whole things gets wound up.
I am not sticking up for any cops who have overstepped the mark leading to serious injury or death but the whole system is screwed and it is far easier to scapegoat some cops/mental health professionals etc etc than it is to effectively alter process to make it work properly.
A cops general intention at the start of a shift is to ensure he/she completes said shift and goes home safely, ideally without getting into bother.
Precisely. Cops get very little training in dealing with the mentally ill and yet are the first to have to deal with them in public, often when they've not taken their mess for days or weeks. Protocol generally says that mental health professionals should deal, seldom happens. It also says that they should be transported in an ambulance with cops following. What a laugh, seldom an ambulance to assist so the cops have to decide whether to carry on dealing in a public place or try to get them off to a place of safety...the mental health unit, themselves. This is often in a van. In a cage in a van generally. So we now have a wound up in-medicated mentally ill person who often dislikes authority due to every time they encounter them, they seem to get sectioned, sat in a cage on their way yet again to being locked up. So they kick off, so the cops follow protocol and go straight to the cells...so the whole things gets wound up.
I am not sticking up for any cops who have overstepped the mark leading to serious injury or death but the whole system is screwed and it is far easier to scapegoat some cops/mental health professionals etc etc than it is to effectively alter process to make it work properly.
A cops general intention at the start of a shift is to ensure he/she completes said shift and goes home safely, ideally without getting into bother.
Christopher Alder also died after coming in contact with police. Nobody was convicted for his death despite CCTV footage which shows him abandoned on the custody suite floor, half naked whilst the constables munched on their donuts (the donut bit is not true). The constables may have been making monkey noises too.
I dislike the police as a result of negative personal experiences (I may be a CRO or maybe not), but can any police man on here explain why the police are allowed to 'get away' with so much? I know these men were found not guilty by juries and stuff but still.... Imagine all the stuff that goes on that isnt recorded
I dislike the police as a result of negative personal experiences (I may be a CRO or maybe not), but can any police man on here explain why the police are allowed to 'get away' with so much? I know these men were found not guilty by juries and stuff but still.... Imagine all the stuff that goes on that isnt recorded
The police don't "get away" with things. They are heavily scrutinised by PSD and ultimately the IPCC. Officers are investigated daily for complaints made by the public.
A lot of it comes down to the fact that the officers haven't actually done anything wrong, but in your eyes, whatever it is they did should be wrong.
A lot of it comes down to the fact that the officers haven't actually done anything wrong, but in your eyes, whatever it is they did should be wrong.
Mk3Spitfire said:
The police don't "get away" with things. They are heavily scrutinised by PSD and ultimately the IPCC. Officers are investigated daily for complaints made by the public.
A lot of it comes down to the fact that the officers haven't actually done anything wrong, but in your eyes, whatever it is they did should be wrong.
In a lot of/most cases, I am sure the police have done nothing wrong but in a case like that of Alder if you take your police uniform off for a minute, can you honestly tell me you think there was nothing done wrong?A lot of it comes down to the fact that the officers haven't actually done anything wrong, but in your eyes, whatever it is they did should be wrong.
XCP said:
These are serious cases, but you have a knack of making points that make no sense and lurching off into obscure irrelevance.
If you want to debate deaths in custody, fine, but try and tone down the stream of consciousness wanderings, and we might be able to understand what point you are trying to make.
Quite; and if you are concerned about the deaths of mentally ill people, have a look at how many die in hospitals. Five recently in Northampton, and nationally many many many more. If you want to debate deaths in custody, fine, but try and tone down the stream of consciousness wanderings, and we might be able to understand what point you are trying to make.
Remember Rocky Bennet? Not a policeman in sight to pin that one on.
Moreover, many many mentally ill people die by their own hands, some, and I am one, see many of these suicides as being the consequence of inappropriate/inconsiderate "treatment" or neglect by either the hospital or the community team.
For community team read: "The keep them out of hospital at all costs, beds are too expensive team"
But if you prefer to bang away at the police, fine. I for one think in this area, you're shooting at the wrong target.
Eclassy said:
In a lot of/most cases, I am sure the police have done nothing wrong but in a case like that of Alder if you take your police uniform off for a minute, can you honestly tell me you think there was nothing done wrong?
Wasn't defending the police in that incident. I think it's a perfect example of how not to treat prisoners. But you've just answered your previous question as to why the police "get away" with so much.singlecoil said:
XCP said:
carinaman said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-276394...
The Met said PC Birks had been suspended "in the interests of allowing a full reinvestigation".
Sean Rigg died in August 2008 so not quite six years ago.
How long will it be before the family of Thomas Orchard, a schizophrenic killed in custody in October 2012 get closure?
I doubt when the CCTV of what happened to the late Thomas Orchard is released into the public domain it will be as offensive as this:
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/cr...
'killed in custody' Really. You don't half type some rubbish don't you?The Met said PC Birks had been suspended "in the interests of allowing a full reinvestigation".
Sean Rigg died in August 2008 so not quite six years ago.
How long will it be before the family of Thomas Orchard, a schizophrenic killed in custody in October 2012 get closure?
I doubt when the CCTV of what happened to the late Thomas Orchard is released into the public domain it will be as offensive as this:
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/cr...
Edited by carinaman on Friday 30th May 19:45
You've noticed that too. Every time this and the other anti-police threads start up again after well deserved breaks you can guarantee it's CM with his links to mostly irrelevant stuff.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Wasn't defending the police in that incident. I think it's a perfect example of how not to treat prisoners. But you've just answered your previous question as to why the police "get away" with so much.
Thanks for saying it as it is. In my opinion, I think the police in Hull got away in the case of Alder because of the 5 policemen that were directly invilved, 4 were allowed to retire/resign without facing any disciplinary and 1 was still working with the force as of 2010.Like I said earlier I can understand a jury finding them not guilty cos thats the way the law works but for the force to not take any disciplinary action against these officers despite all the evidence available is what makes people like myself believe the police are allowed to get away with 'murder'.
This has gone off topic and I will stop here but I am sure in the not too distant future, a thread will be created when another 'innocent' member of the public is killed/dies after coming in contact with police. We will/can continue this discussion then.
Regards.
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