Paying lawyers in advance?

[Amateurish]

EskimoArapaho said:

This was a surprise to me: divorce lawyers requiring payment up front (court appearances regarding access to children, financial settlement, etc). We're talking about £1750+VAT per day, for example.

Is this common/universal/etc?

Very common. Lots of clients have a habit of not paying fees once a divorce is settled, so industry norm (for privately paying clients) is to get fees up front. I've seen firms go under because of bad debt.

Manches in Oxford recently were "rescued" mainly because of cashflow issues. "In a creditors’ notice PricewaterhouseCoopers
(PwC) established that £2.3m of Manches’ £4.7m WIP was more than 120 days old and therefore hard to recover."

http://www.thelawyer.com/analysis/manches-life-aft...

[Rude-boy]

Amateurish said:

Very common. Lots of clients have a habit of not paying fees once a divorce is settled, so industry norm (for privately paying clients) is to get fees up front. I've seen firms go under because of bad debt.

Manches in Oxford recently were "rescued" mainly because of cashflow issues. "In a creditors’ notice PricewaterhouseCoopers
(PwC) established that £2.3m of Manches’ £4.7m WIP was more than 120 days old and therefore hard to recover."

http://www.thelawyer.com/analysis/manches-life-aft...

Jeez Louise, that's some lock up. Would have thought that their bank would have jumped on them at that.

[TVR1]

Rude-boy said:

Jeez Louise, that's some lock up. Would have thought that their bank would have jumped on them at that.

Unless of course, the firm in question had the bank and PWC as clients. Clients who may well have been part of the problem regarding fees.

Whilst not saying that either of them sailed close to the wind in terms of conflict, perhaps there was a slight breeze...........

[Lakeland9]

As BV has said from the bar's perspective, lawyers fees are hard to get in. The trouble is that once you have decided not to have private clients (we did,many years ago) the big corporates calculate that as they give you so much work,you're not going to go all heavy on them for the fees outstanding for fear of peeing them off.

They're right of course. Even some or our blue chip clients who were being invoiced for several million a year, were crap at paying up. If we got them within 90 days we were doing well. It was all the more galling since we always paid up our own debts within invoice terms- especially the Bar even though their credit collection operations were like being beaten to death with a cuddly toy.

[10 Pence Short]

Many law firms have been basket cases, financially speaking, and very badly run in principle.

Equity partners have become too used to relying on drawings without thinking about whether there's any underlying profit to support them.

All of a sudden that uncollected WIP, a VAT bill and a failure to retain profits in lieu of a big fat drawings cheque and you cant afford this month's wage bill.

Then all pre-packed or picked over dept by dept as loyal minions get shafted over.

[anonymous-user]

Lakeland9 said:

especially the Bar even though their credit collection operations were like being beaten to death with a cuddly toy.

How very accurate! We don't have a credit control department in any recognised commercial sense. Instead, we have people who make a faithful record of apparently chance events - like monks recording eclipses, or comets, in the Middle Ages - ie when payments happen to turn up, they are entered on the system and passed on. Chasing of fees seems to consist of sending out bulk emails. The fact that those emails are roundly ignored is neither here nor there.

[Jasandjules]

Wonder how much WIP was insurance backed cases that wouldn't be paid until the conclusion of the case (if at all for many months thereafter).

[gpo746]

Definitely pay them up front OP
You will get a much better service.

[Jasandjules]

the accused said:

Here's the other side to it. I used counsel the other week (March 27th) in a licensing court matter. Chap did splendidly. Still no fee note. Mention of money was diverted to the brief who recommended him. Was thinking of phoning the solicitor next week to see if anyone actually wants paid….

Instructed by a solicitor is far different to being public/direct access.

[Rude-boy]

Jasandjules said:

Instructed by a solicitor is far different to being public/direct access.

Chances are that you have been judged a good 'risk' and so they have not asked for funds on account. We don't always ask for money on account.

[EskimoArapaho]

Thanks for the extra postings on this.

I saw my friend today and he's just about all out of cash, maxed credit cards, etc. And there's a 2 day 'Finding of Fact' hearing looming (regarding access to children) and then the final financial hearing. And he'll be unrepresented at both.

Meanwhile the other party has access to £80k withdrawn in advance from a bank account. (I'm not side-taking as such here; just explaining how the basic financial situation happens to be stacked at the moment.)

[Amateurish]

EskimoArapaho said:

Thanks for the extra postings on this.

I saw my friend today and he's just about all out of cash, maxed credit cards, etc. And there's a 2 day 'Finding of Fact' hearing looming (regarding access to children) and then the final financial hearing. And he'll be unrepresented at both.

Meanwhile the other party has access to £80k withdrawn in advance from a bank account. (I'm not side-taking as such here; just explaining how the basic financial situation happens to be stacked at the moment.)

In that case your friend might be able to get a court order requiring the other party to pay his legal fees.