Speed camera triggered at 31 in 30 zone
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure that is true. I know of one force at least who push SACs at 10%..
Oh yes, which one?Derek Smith said:
I've been asked for my advice on the matter.
By whom and what expertise would you have on the matter?Derek Smith said:
The first bloke was flashed at what he thought was 45 'or so' and I said the 10% +2 so both he and I were surprised to find 44mph on the ticket. I've seen two at 44 and one at 45. You seem to be right. The criterion is indeed strict.
Post up the tickets you have 'seen' and let us all have a look. "45 'or so' " isn't something you should be relying on to prove tickets are being sent at less than 46 in a 40; perhaps "45 'or so' " includes 46.The police can issue tickets for less than the speeds in the guidance but this is usually because there are other circumstances that suggest that is done, it is not done routinely by police ticket offices and it is not the intention to offer courses for speeds below 10%+2mph. If you know where this is being done routinely then say where it is.
CharlieBangBang said:
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure that is true. I know of one force at least who push SACs at 10%..
Oh yes, which one?Derek Smith said:
I've been asked for my advice on the matter.
By whom and what expertise would you have on the matter?Derek Smith said:
The first bloke was flashed at what he thought was 45 'or so' and I said the 10% +2 so both he and I were surprised to find 44mph on the ticket. I've seen two at 44 and one at 45. You seem to be right. The criterion is indeed strict.
Post up the tickets you have 'seen' and let us all have a look. "45 'or so' " isn't something you should be relying on to prove tickets are being sent at less than 46 in a 40; perhaps "45 'or so' " includes 46.The police can issue tickets for less than the speeds in the guidance but this is usually because there are other circumstances that suggest that is done, it is not done routinely by police ticket offices and it is not the intention to offer courses for speeds below 10%+2mph. If you know where this is being done routinely then say where it is.
Derek Smith said:
CharlieBangBang said:
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure that is true. I know of one force at least who push SACs at 10%..
Oh yes, which one?Derek Smith said:
I've been asked for my advice on the matter.
By whom and what expertise would you have on the matter?Derek Smith said:
The first bloke was flashed at what he thought was 45 'or so' and I said the 10% +2 so both he and I were surprised to find 44mph on the ticket. I've seen two at 44 and one at 45. You seem to be right. The criterion is indeed strict.
Post up the tickets you have 'seen' and let us all have a look. "45 'or so' " isn't something you should be relying on to prove tickets are being sent at less than 46 in a 40; perhaps "45 'or so' " includes 46.The police can issue tickets for less than the speeds in the guidance but this is usually because there are other circumstances that suggest that is done, it is not done routinely by police ticket offices and it is not the intention to offer courses for speeds below 10%+2mph. If you know where this is being done routinely then say where it is.
Derek Smith said:
I don't get online forums. If this was face to face you wouldn't use that tone to ask me the source of my information. You don't think I'm right. OK, I'm happy with that. I know I am right, and whether you are happy or not is of little concern to me. I see no reason to justify my expertise to you.
Anyone can come on a forum and claim expertise and direct contact with what is being discussed. Many do. Many Internet legends start in exactly that way. If I was face-to-face with you I would make the same challenge. The problem with short Internet forum discourse is it comes over the wrong way from time-to-time. I mean no disrespectful tone but am simply asking what expertise you have to make your apparent authoritive statements; I ask it because I happen to know they are incorrect.
I also know you used to be in the police and you are using that to claim authority on the subject. The problem with that is that unless you were directly involved in national and local administration of speed awareness courses and speeding penalties that you would have a vague knowledge of the administration and policies surrounding such matters. Most of what you write about these matters shows you have heard about them from an inexpert 3rd-party.
Over to you to support the legend you have started.
Edited to add: just say which county or counties you know are issuing SAC invites at below ACPO recommended thresholds and I will ask them directly if they are...simples.
Edited by CharlieBangBang on Sunday 6th April 13:57
CharlieBangBang said:
Derek Smith said:
I don't get online forums. If this was face to face you wouldn't use that tone to ask me the source of my information. You don't think I'm right. OK, I'm happy with that. I know I am right, and whether you are happy or not is of little concern to me. I see no reason to justify my expertise to you.
Anyone can come on a forum and claim expertise and direct contact with what is being discussed. Many do. Many Internet legends start in exactly that way. If I was face-to-face with you I would make the same challenge. The problem with short Internet forum discourse is it comes over the wrong way from time-to-time. I mean no disrespectful tone but am simply asking what expertise you have to make your apparent authoritive statements; I ask it because I happen to know they are incorrect.
I also know you used to be in the police and you are using that to claim authority on the subject. The problem with that is that unless you were directly involved in national and local administration of speed awareness courses and speeding penalties that you would have a vague knowledge of the administration and policies surrounding such matters. Most of what you write about these matters shows you have heard about them from an inexpert 3rd-party.
Over to you to support the legend you have started.
Edited to add: just say which county or counties you know are issuing SAC invites at below ACPO recommended thresholds and I will ask them directly if they are...simples.
Edited by CharlieBangBang on Sunday 6th April 13:57
CharlieBangBang said:
Derek Smith said:
I don't get online forums. If this was face to face you wouldn't use that tone to ask me the source of my information. You don't think I'm right. OK, I'm happy with that. I know I am right, and whether you are happy or not is of little concern to me. I see no reason to justify my expertise to you.
Anyone can come on a forum and claim expertise and direct contact with what is being discussed. Many do. Many Internet legends start in exactly that way. If I was face-to-face with you I would make the same challenge. The problem with short Internet forum discourse is it comes over the wrong way from time-to-time. I mean no disrespectful tone but am simply asking what expertise you have to make your apparent authoritive statements; I ask it because I happen to know they are incorrect.
I also know you used to be in the police and you are using that to claim authority on the subject. The problem with that is that unless you were directly involved in national and local administration of speed awareness courses and speeding penalties that you would have a vague knowledge of the administration and policies surrounding such matters. Most of what you write about these matters shows you have heard about them from an inexpert 3rd-party.
Over to you to support the legend you have started.
Edited to add: just say which county or counties you know are issuing SAC invites at below ACPO recommended thresholds and I will ask them directly if they are...simples.
Edited by CharlieBangBang on Sunday 6th April 13:57
A little playing the man can sometimes be justified, however going overboard on i benefits no one.
As for the thread subject, there's no legal reason preventing the Police from proceeding against someone speeding under the 10% +2. Similarly, I can't see any reason someone under such a threshold could not then be offered a SAC.
As for the thread subject, there's no legal reason preventing the Police from proceeding against someone speeding under the 10% +2. Similarly, I can't see any reason someone under such a threshold could not then be offered a SAC.
10 Pence Short said:
A little playing the man can sometimes be justified, however going overboard on i benefits no one.
As for the thread subject, there's no legal reason preventing the Police from proceeding against someone speeding under the 10% +2. Similarly, I can't see any reason someone under such a threshold could not then be offered a SAC.
You are right, there is no legal reason however they don't do it.As for the thread subject, there's no legal reason preventing the Police from proceeding against someone speeding under the 10% +2. Similarly, I can't see any reason someone under such a threshold could not then be offered a SAC.
All DS needs to do is to name the county who he has seen doing this and I will check to see if that claim is correct.
10 Pence Short said:
What you suggest is that someone dealt with at 46mph will be offered a SAC, and someone dealt with at 45mph will be given a £100 fine and 3 points.
Have I got that right?
in the very rare event of anyone being dealt with at 45mph in a 40mph limit then that wold be correct yes. It is my understanding that no course will be given outside of 10%+2mph to 10%+9mph in the NDORS system. Have I got that right?
i also know that there is no routine speed camera operations below the ACPO guidance as has been claimed many times. so where do these low level offenders come from?
All DS needs to do is to say what county he has knowledge of who issue courses at 44mph in a 40mph limit and I will find out if that is correct.
you and others can keep saying "oh I have heard from a mate who went on a course that one person on the course had a ticket for 33 in a 30 or 44 in a 40...etc" but it is not supported. I have been on 3 SAC and heard the same claims on all courses and I knew before I arrived at the courses that no ticket was issued in those counties at the speeds claimed...so you figure.
I have checked in other counties when claims have been made on the Internet that low speeds were enforced and in no county have those claimed speeds been enforced. I invite DS to be the first to show I am wrong. I might be, I accept that but I doubt it.
Now what county was it DS?
NPI said:
CharlieBangBang said:
Edited to add: just say which county or counties you know are issuing SAC invites at below ACPO recommended thresholds and I will ask them directly if they are...simples.
Not all Forces have signed up to the ACPO guidelines.Some counties do not operate SAC inside the guidance for SAC but those who do not are not operating below the ACPO speed enforcement guidance; at least I have seen no evience that they are, have you?
The ACPO guidance says consideration of SACs for more than +9 is possible.
It is silent on the issue of SACs for offences below 10% +2, though this is unsurprising, as they do not recommend action on speeding until that point. It would obviously be contradictory if they suggested SACs could kick in below the enforcement limit.
It is silent on the issue of SACs for offences below 10% +2, though this is unsurprising, as they do not recommend action on speeding until that point. It would obviously be contradictory if they suggested SACs could kick in below the enforcement limit.
ACE997 said:
Yes, factory spec. I have thought about this too, the car is only a couple of months old and so the tyre wear is low and tyre circumference is near its largest. I even considered tyre pressure but the onboard tyre pressure monitor says all tyres are normal. I have also checked the calibration of the head up display vs the speedo and they match. I have passed this camera many times at an indicated 29 or 30 mph and it did not trigger. This was the first time I pushed it to 31mph.
Find a GPS, drive along at a steady indicated 31mph and work out what the true speed is. Edited by ACE997 on Sunday 6th April 10:37
CharlieBangBang said:
Some have not but those who have not operate above the speed enforcement guidance NOT below it.
Some counties do not operate SAC inside the guidance for SAC but those who do not are not operating below the ACPO speed enforcement guidance; at least I have seen no evience that they are, have you?
CBB says a lot, as did his alter ego PMB, AKA Captain Pugwash of HMS(S as in submarine ,Pingu). Whether or not it's the result of a bad vindaloo ( from his stern tubes)or excess wind( from his bow tubes0 I leave to the reader. I suspect he has several missions in his sad life. One is to trawl( and trawling for fish is an honarable occupation) the net looking for indiscretions by posters to present as evidence in motoring cases and hence earn some cash and his his hobby is to cast doubt into drivers ( the newer the better) ,as to the speed laws. The sooner some BIB drop a decent size depth charge on him, the quicker road safety will recurr. Some counties do not operate SAC inside the guidance for SAC but those who do not are not operating below the ACPO speed enforcement guidance; at least I have seen no evience that they are, have you?
IF you do get a ticket for 31 in a 30 , I'd suggest the admin at SS might be interested.
In 2009 I got caught by a mobile speed camera at 11am on a Sunday morning for 33 in a 30.
It was it a Japanese import with the speedo converter chip thing.
I argued the +/-% by post and forwarded stuff that way. it went to court which i could not attend due to illness where because i appealed i got slapped with 6 points and wait a £1125 fine.
I appealed this and it was subsequently dropped to 6 points and a £525 fine because i was unemployed.
This was Cleveland in Teesside.
If they are wanting figures they will press for anything.
It was it a Japanese import with the speedo converter chip thing.
I argued the +/-% by post and forwarded stuff that way. it went to court which i could not attend due to illness where because i appealed i got slapped with 6 points and wait a £1125 fine.
I appealed this and it was subsequently dropped to 6 points and a £525 fine because i was unemployed.
This was Cleveland in Teesside.
If they are wanting figures they will press for anything.
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