Law relating to checked airline baggage

[burwoodman]

Looking for someone who knows not opinion please

Gatwick flight cancelled but airline said check your bag now. I reluctantly complied 30 mins later i found an alternative flight. Airline refused to hand my baggage back-used 'security' as an excuse. Im calling bs on that and they just wanted to stop me using another flight. I believe if I want the bag back it is my property, i had the receipt etc.

Anyone know?

[Randomthoughts]

It's BS, however depending how quickly you needed it may have determined whether they were able to comply in the time. Larger airports have fairly complicated baggage systems and to pull one out would require a reasonable amount of time and effort; so if you'd said "I need it in the next ten minutes" the response "It's not going to happen, it's going to be stuck in security for the next half hour" may be more accurate than you'd like.

[burwoodman]

Randomthoughts said:

It's BS, however depending how quickly you needed it may have determined whether they were able to comply in the time. Larger airports have fairly complicated baggage systems and to pull one out would require a reasonable amount of time and effort; so if you'd said "I need it in the next ten minutes" the response "It's not going to happen, it's going to be stuck in security for the next half hour" may be more accurate than you'd like.

It was engineered to stop me catching a flight 3 hours later to the same final destination with the same airline and catching the same connection. Many thanks. I thought it was BS-cheers

[CYMR0]

What was the reason for the flight cancellation?

What was your eventual delay and what compensation was offered to you?

[burwoodman]

CYMR0 said:

What was the reason for the flight cancellation?

What was your eventual delay and what compensation was offered to you?

It was the first A380 flight out of gatwick and basically the plane has an issue. A replacement plane was flown out from Dubai so we had to overnight it (12 hours). I know the EU directive(law) which says £500 odd but I was a full day late arriving at the other end due to the next connection from Dubai being 8 hours later after i finally got there (prepaid hotel so lost a night £180). In short i could not do all i wanted(work) and i have to now go back in 2 weeks to finish what i started. I think the airline owe me much more than £680 for many reasons-primarily, this all could have been avoided if they gave me my bags back or agreed to fwd onto my destination. The alternative flight was with the same airline, just Heathrow but i had 3 hours to catch it. Their operations desk told me there were seats available but when they called to arrange they were clearly told to make up an excuse. The bag being the one they chose. Not good enough.

[HD Adam]

A few years back, I arrived at Schipol overnight from Dubai on the 23rd December.
It was foggy and flights were suspended for my connecting flight to Norwich.
The official KLM line was that they would try to fly later that day and if not, the next day on Xmas eve if the weather cleared.

I, and a couple of others decided not to chance it and asked for our bags back so we could head for the ferry to Harwich.

Answer from KLM was "No, you can't have your bags back for security reasons".
"Ok" we said. "Keep them".
Answer from KLM was "No, you can't leave your bags here and walk out for security reasons"

Hmmmmm

Naturally, being Xmas, we headed for the Stena Line ferry, mentally writing off the contents of my checked in luggage picturing them being thrown into the nearest Dutch skip when I failed to board my flight.

KLM, bless their little hearts actually freighted my bags to me which arrived on Boxing Day.

[gazza285]

Having work on many baggage handling systems and in many airports I can tell you that the chances of getting your luggage back at short notice is zero. Within five minutes of checking in at Gatwick your bag will have been sorted, been through an X-ray, and been sorted again. Within ten minutes it'll be in a luggage can on it's way from the terminal to the apron as flight ready. Security might be the excuse they used, I'm not sure of the legalities, but there is no real opportunity to have somebody go out to the apron, unload a flight ready can, find your bag and re-load the can, then transport your bag back to the terminal, where it would have to be sent through the X-ray again, before delivering it to your impatient, waiting hands.

Think of it as posting a letter, then asking one of the counter staff if you can have it back. Once it's in the system, it's gone, until it arrives at the other end.

You would have been asked to check your luggage in at the time because that was when the slot was allocated in the baggage handling system for your flight. The flight might be cancelled, but another plane was diverted for you, and the limited amount of baggage resources available would not have allowed for the check-in to be rescheduled to suit the new flight. Most baggage systems are creaking a bit now, and new system installs are very disruptive, although they do keep me in work.

Edited by gazza285 on Monday 7th April 22:20

[johnfm]

burwoodman said:

Looking for someone who knows not opinion please

Gatwick flight cancelled but airline said check your bag now. I reluctantly complied 30 mins later i found an alternative flight. Airline refused to hand my baggage back-used 'security' as an excuse. Im calling bs on that and they just wanted to stop me using another flight. I believe if I want the bag back it is my property, i had the receipt etc.

Anyone know?

If you want legal advice and not opinions, I suggest instructing a lawyer. This is an Internet forum for car people.

[davepoth]

gazza285 said:

You would have been asked to check your luggage in at the time because that was when the slot was allocated in the baggage handling system for your flight. The flight might be cancelled, but another plane was diverted for you, and the limited amount of baggage resources available would not have allowed for the check-in to be rescheduled to suit the new flight. Most baggage systems are creaking a bit now, and new system installs are very disruptive, although they do keep me in work.

Edited by gazza285 on Monday 7th April 22:20

Which is all well and good. However the check in staff didn't say "It's a frightful faff - we'll do our best but the first place we'll be able to intercept your bag is at the plane", which was probably the truth and would have been pretty much accepted, but rather "can't - security says so". Companies really should try telling the truth once in a while.

[gazza285]

davepoth said:

Which is all well and good. However the check in staff didn't say "It's a frightful faff - we'll do our best but the first place we'll be able to intercept your bag is at the plane", which was probably the truth and would have been pretty much accepted, but rather "can't - security says so". Companies really should try telling the truth once in a while.

There may also be security protocols surrounding baggage once it has been scanned and loaded into the can, of this I am not sure, but I can see why it would not be allowed for security reasons.

[HD Adam]

davepoth said:

gazza285 said:

You would have been asked to check your luggage in at the time because that was when the slot was allocated in the baggage handling system for your flight. The flight might be cancelled, but another plane was diverted for you, and the limited amount of baggage resources available would not have allowed for the check-in to be rescheduled to suit the new flight. Most baggage systems are creaking a bit now, and new system installs are very disruptive, although they do keep me in work.

Edited by gazza285 on Monday 7th April 22:20

Which is all well and good. However the check in staff didn't say "It's a frightful faff - we'll do our best but the first place we'll be able to intercept your bag is at the plane", which was probably the truth and would have been pretty much accepted, but rather "can't - security says so". Companies really should try telling the truth once in a while.

Of course, ^^^This^^^

It was just the concept of "You can't leave them and you can't take them" which was interesting.

Any option of me not waiting for my flight whilst the bags were in the system involved more work somewhere for them hence them me wanting me to wait for a flight that may or may not have taken off later that day.

If it hadn't had been the day before Xmas eve, I would happily have settled in at the Crown Lounge for the duration with the free food and booze.

[Siscar]

gazza285 said:

Having work on many baggage handling systems and in many airports I can tell you that the chances of getting your luggage back at short notice is zero. Within five minutes of checking in at Gatwick your bag will have been sorted, been through an X-ray, and been sorted again. Within ten minutes it'll be in a luggage can on it's way from the terminal to the apron as flight ready. Security might be the excuse they used, I'm not sure of the legalities, but there is no real opportunity to have somebody go out to the apron, unload a flight ready can, find your bag and re-load the can, then transport your bag back to the terminal, where it would have to be sent through the X-ray again, before delivering it to your impatient, waiting hands.

Think of it as posting a letter, then asking one of the counter staff if you can have it back. Once it's in the system, it's gone, until it arrives at the other end.

You would have been asked to check your luggage in at the time because that was when the slot was allocated in the baggage handling system for your flight. The flight might be cancelled, but another plane was diverted for you, and the limited amount of baggage resources available would not have allowed for the check-in to be rescheduled to suit the new flight. Most baggage systems are creaking a bit now, and new system installs are very disruptive, although they do keep me in work.

Hmm, sounds like the person who knows what he's talking about that you were seeking, even if you don't like what he says.

[Derek Smith]

gazza285 said:

Having work on many baggage handling systems and in many airports I can tell you that the chances of getting your luggage back at short notice is zero. Within five minutes of checking in at Gatwick your bag will have been sorted, been through an X-ray, and been sorted again. Within ten minutes it'll be in a luggage can on it's way from the terminal to the apron as flight ready. Security might be the excuse they used, I'm not sure of the legalities, but there is no real opportunity to have somebody go out to the apron, unload a flight ready can, find your bag and re-load the can, then transport your bag back to the terminal, where it would have to be sent through the X-ray again, before delivering it to your impatient, waiting hands.

Think of it as posting a letter, then asking one of the counter staff if you can have it back. Once it's in the system, it's gone, until it arrives at the other end.

You would have been asked to check your luggage in at the time because that was when the slot was allocated in the baggage handling system for your flight. The flight might be cancelled, but another plane was diverted for you, and the limited amount of baggage resources available would not have allowed for the check-in to be rescheduled to suit the new flight. Most baggage systems are creaking a bit now, and new system installs are very disruptive, although they do keep me in work.

Edited by gazza285 on Monday 7th April 22:20

Ironically, I've known it to be done 'for security reasons' when there was a suspect device discovered in bagage x-ray. The luggage of a co-traveller was recovered when the pair were taken from the aircraft, he from first, the other chap from cattle, when it was on a remote stand. The aircraft took off in its slot so it doesn't take all that long.

[Finlandia]

burwoodman said:

Looking for someone who knows not opinion please

Gatwick flight cancelled but airline said check your bag now. I reluctantly complied 30 mins later i found an alternative flight. Airline refused to hand my baggage back-used 'security' as an excuse. Im calling bs on that and they just wanted to stop me using another flight. I believe if I want the bag back it is my property, i had the receipt etc.

Anyone know?

As already said, Security isn't the reason.

The bags are stacked inside containers and depending on how awake the handlers were, they can either pinpoint the exact container and placing within that container, or then they haven't got a clue where it is.
Searching through containers for one single bag, stealing baggage handling resources from another flight means it's easier and cheaper to bluff your way and tell the passenger it's impossible due to security reasons, after all who is going to question anything to do with the security.

// Ex Redcap at LGW South Terminal

[fizz47]

if you wanted your luggage back - simply tell them you will not be boarding the flight- they then have to retrieve your luggage.

[Siscar]

fizz47 said:

if you wanted your luggage back - simply tell them you will not be boarding the flight- they then have to retrieve your luggage.

But nor are they going to transfer his ticket to the flight he really wants to go on.

[GrumpyV8]

Derek Smith said:

Ironically, I've known it to be done 'for security reasons' when there was a suspect device discovered in bagage x-ray. The luggage of a co-traveller was recovered when the pair were taken from the aircraft, he from first, the other chap from cattle, when it was on a remote stand. The aircraft took off in its slot so it doesn't take all that long.

Yes it can be done for 'security' reasons which would undoubtedly concentrate the minds of the airline/airport authorities! Customs officers (or whatever they are called these days) have the power to refuse clearance of said aircraft until the baggage is presented to them or the relevant security services.