Bye Bye ACPO you will not be missed.

Bye Bye ACPO you will not be missed.

Author
Discussion

FiF

Original Poster:

44,044 posts

251 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
LOL


Seems that the elected Police Commissioners have voted to disband and do away with ACPO.

wavey

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

217 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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What are we going to get in their place?

carinaman

21,281 posts

172 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Is that related to them being expected to fund the new College of Policing? PCCs have a finite money to spend and they're expected to fund that new College?

Derek Smith

45,611 posts

248 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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It will be replaced by jobs for friends/wives/backers of the police commissioners.

MacW

1,349 posts

176 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Derek, do you know of any lonely commissioners that I might befriend/marry in a reasonably short amount of time? nuts

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

158 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Good riddance.


gforceg

3,524 posts

179 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Derek Smith said:
It will be replaced by jobs for friends/wives/backers of the police commissioners.
Using the Parliamentary model, then?

anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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I've always been sceptical of the private activities, but the writer of that article doesn't really know what he's talking about, which is why he's tried to attack and turn the positive side into the negative side. He's trying to pitch a typical-Troy 'bloated state vs local power' argument by misrepresenting a few aspects.

Article said:
The real problem with Acpo was that the policing “guidelines” they issued had a habit of becoming hard and fast rules. Acpo did more than any other organisation to promote a culture of centralised policing – one in which compliance with procedures coming from on high determined how a local community was policed. “It’s Acpo guidelines” I kept being told.
Rigidity is related to seriousness. Take firearms. Do we have every force finding their own way to deploy armed officers or do we take the best practices nationally and spread that? It's smart to have a single senior officer having an individual portfolio. If a police force is dealing especially well with victims of sexual offences, I want that spread to other forces.

Article said:
With Acpo's demise, your locally elected Police and Crime Commissioners ought to have a far greater say in deciding how you are policed where you live. “Stuff Acpo, it’s what the locally elected Commissioner has decided” is what I want to hear.
He's again confusing (or doesn't know the difference between) best practice and guidelines with priorities. ACPO have little say in the latter. That's what dictates policing activity and is set on a force-by-force basis, and even on more micro levels such as BCUs and SNAs.

Do commissioners now design best practice / guidelines? Are they to look out on a national scale in every area of 'business' and have to skills to judge who is doing what best?





Greendubber

13,168 posts

203 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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I do hope my PCC isn't calling the shots because so far all he's managed to do is eat buffet lunches before deciding which mate to employ as a secretary.....oh and appear in the paper every few weeks.

Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

244 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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10 Pence Short said:
What are we going to get in their place?
Any Tom Dick and Harry outside the Force that has no experience (or Nouse) on Policing with instant promotion and posting to Acpo rank so that in accordance with current thinking they will run Officers who have more experience of Policing in their little toes
.
PCC's will then be Kings of the Castle and know as much as they ones they have just employed and Tom Windsor (Ex Br).

DVD
(Cynical moi?)

Slidingpillar

761 posts

136 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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La Liga said:
stuff
I must admit when I read the article, my reaction was the writer had an axe to grind and a lot of it was opinions presented as facts.

Red 4

10,744 posts

187 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Dwight VanDriver said:
Any Tom Dick and Harry outside the Force that has no experience (or Nouse) on Policing with instant promotion and posting to Acpo rank so that in accordance with current thinking they will run Officers who have more experience of Policing in their little toes
.
PCC's will then be Kings of the Castle and know as much as they ones they have just employed and Tom Windsor (Ex Br).

DVD
(Cynical moi?)
Correct.

And more politics involved in policing (which is what PCCs are really all about).

rewc

2,187 posts

233 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Does this mean there will be none of this 10%+ 2mph leeway before prosecution and that PCC's will set the level of enforcement in their counties? Similarly with Driver Awareness Course attendance criteria?
Sometimes the old adage of beware what you wish for can come true.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

158 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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How did things work prior to ACPO Ltd.?

Derek Smith

45,611 posts

248 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
La Liga said:
I've always been sceptical of the private activities, but the writer of that article doesn't really know what he's talking about, which is why he's tried to attack and turn the positive side into the negative side. He's trying to pitch a typical-Troy 'bloated state vs local power' argument by misrepresenting a few aspects.

Article said:
The real problem with Acpo was that the policing “guidelines” they issued had a habit of becoming hard and fast rules. Acpo did more than any other organisation to promote a culture of centralised policing – one in which compliance with procedures coming from on high determined how a local community was policed. “It’s Acpo guidelines” I kept being told.
Rigidity is related to seriousness. Take firearms. Do we have every force finding their own way to deploy armed officers or do we take the best practices nationally and spread that? It's smart to have a single senior officer having an individual portfolio. If a police force is dealing especially well with victims of sexual offences, I want that spread to other forces.

Article said:
With Acpo's demise, your locally elected Police and Crime Commissioners ought to have a far greater say in deciding how you are policed where you live. “Stuff Acpo, it’s what the locally elected Commissioner has decided” is what I want to hear.
He's again confusing (or doesn't know the difference between) best practice and guidelines with priorities. ACPO have little say in the latter. That's what dictates policing activity and is set on a force-by-force basis, and even on more micro levels such as BCUs and SNAs.

Do commissioners now design best practice / guidelines? Are they to look out on a national scale in every area of 'business' and have to skills to judge who is doing what best?
Do Home Office Guidelines still exist? They issued all sorts of missives in my day, <10 years ago, on, inter alia, firearms and my specialty, ID parades. These were virtually requirements. In those days HOG were far superior in influence to ACPO. Indeed, currently ACPO guidelines are ignored by some forces but it would be a brave CC who decided that the Home Office didn't know what it was talking about.

ACPO were influential rather than directive. There was on bloke, once CC of North Wales, who issued guidelines with regards speeding, reducing it from the 10mph over the limit to the current, although often ignored, 10% +2mph. Many forces just ignored it but then the HO decided to issue guidelines on the matter and then all CCs decided it was the thing to do, especially those with an inspectorate visit coming.

FiF

Original Poster:

44,044 posts

251 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Despite the tone of my OP I'm a little bit torn on this.

I will mourn not one second for getting rid of all the limited company malarkey. It always seemed wrong and inappropriate.

Clearly there needs to be someone to do the ACPO role which was through guidelines :cough: get some uniformity throughout the nation. That has to be a good thing frankly.

Who can do this in future. PCCs? nah, rolls about on floor holding sides.

Home Office is the next other possibility, but need continuity and independence regardless of governmental changes.

So the only place to go is the very first recommendation of the review which was a Chief Constable's council to co-ordinate policy etc. Which sort of leads one back to thinking it would make sense to have an individual lead officer responsible for particular topics. Which sort of leads one back to ACPO rev 2 without all the limited company b-s.

What we may get is what we so often get when new govts come to power and start meddling. This organisation XYZ is no good / failing / not doing as it's told so we will close it down, reintroduce our new reinvented organisation xYz but with more political control. Many examples can be immediately brought to mind.

Red 4

10,744 posts

187 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
FiF said:
So the only place to go is the very first recommendation of the review which was a Chief Constable's council to co-ordinate policy etc. Which sort of leads one back to thinking it would make sense to have an individual lead officer responsible for particular topics. Which sort of leads one back to ACPO rev 2 without all the limited company b-s.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

ACPO Mk2 is inevitable. (Re-branded, obviously).




Mojooo

12,707 posts

180 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
10 Pence Short said:
What are we going to get in their place?
Person A in Hampshire whinging that they were treated differently to person B in Thames Valley?



XCP

16,908 posts

228 months

Monday 7th April 2014
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Rovinghawk said:
How did things work prior to ACPO Ltd.?
That was 1947. Small forces, watch committees and cronyism. Hardly a recipe for the future.

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

217 months

Monday 7th April 2014
quotequote all
Mojooo said:
Person A in Hampshire whinging that they were treated differently to person B in Thames Valley?
That's an issue. As is the cost of individual forces formulating their own ad hoc guidelines.

If he replacement is a public body, at least the individuals involved and the decisions the organisation take would become accountable.