Excellent Campaign Against More 20 mph Limits
Discussion
Just came accross this - http://20spointless.org.uk/
They also have a Facebook page and Twitter so well worth supporting imo.
They also have a Facebook page and Twitter so well worth supporting imo.
Interesting and a good foil to the 20's Plenty flagwavers.
But very very skewed writing in there.
For example, the bus companies. Stagecoach (at least, Stagecoach in my city) have got a history of being anti-20mph, but cannot give any evidence of WHY 20mph would cause unavoidable delays. The surveyed average bus speeds are already 19-21mph, so new limits shouldn't delay them. In addition, public transport companies are statutory consultees to Traffic Regulation Orders. If they decide to object to a TRO, then the scheme HAS to go to Public Inquiry. They pretty much hold a right of veto, yet still b
h and moan at every opportunity. No mention of it here.
The letter from the Police is giving far more information than the headlines suggest, and is standard Police response. If the Police are so against the limits, then how come the Chief Constable signs off the TROs?
The language used is no better than the 20's Plenty lot, or Brake, just focussed in the other direction, but it would come as no surprise to me to hear that the main guy behind this "campaign" is a taxi driver who can write a webpage.
ETA one of the things they make a big fuss of on the website, "Self-enforcing Traffic Engineering", is NOT speed humps and chicanes. Self-enforcing essentially means "a trafic calming feature every 50m". Traffic calming features can be humps and cushions, yes, but these are in no way the most desirable solution. Repeater signs (300mm dia), road markings (20mph roundels in the carriageway), or 70degree+ bends can all be classed as traffic calming, according to DfT Circular 01/2013 Setting Local Speed Limits.
But very very skewed writing in there.
For example, the bus companies. Stagecoach (at least, Stagecoach in my city) have got a history of being anti-20mph, but cannot give any evidence of WHY 20mph would cause unavoidable delays. The surveyed average bus speeds are already 19-21mph, so new limits shouldn't delay them. In addition, public transport companies are statutory consultees to Traffic Regulation Orders. If they decide to object to a TRO, then the scheme HAS to go to Public Inquiry. They pretty much hold a right of veto, yet still b
h and moan at every opportunity. No mention of it here. The letter from the Police is giving far more information than the headlines suggest, and is standard Police response. If the Police are so against the limits, then how come the Chief Constable signs off the TROs?
The language used is no better than the 20's Plenty lot, or Brake, just focussed in the other direction, but it would come as no surprise to me to hear that the main guy behind this "campaign" is a taxi driver who can write a webpage.
ETA one of the things they make a big fuss of on the website, "Self-enforcing Traffic Engineering", is NOT speed humps and chicanes. Self-enforcing essentially means "a trafic calming feature every 50m". Traffic calming features can be humps and cushions, yes, but these are in no way the most desirable solution. Repeater signs (300mm dia), road markings (20mph roundels in the carriageway), or 70degree+ bends can all be classed as traffic calming, according to DfT Circular 01/2013 Setting Local Speed Limits.
Edited by OpulentBob on Tuesday 8th April 11:04
If the buses are averaging 19-21mph that presumably is for the entire journey, so includes stopping to pick up passengers and getting moving again? If so then they must be travelling at over 20mph quite a bit of the time. If the limit were dropped to 20, then I'd expect the average to be nearer 15mph.
rscott said:
If the buses are averaging 19-21mph that presumably is for the entire journey, so includes stopping to pick up passengers and getting moving again? If so then they must be travelling at over 20mph quite a bit of the time. If the limit were dropped to 20, then I'd expect the average to be nearer 15mph.
No, it'll be moving speeds measured at specific points. It's average speed of all buses travelling along that road in that direction, not average journey time. To be clear, I'm not saying they are the average speeds in Worthing, but they are the average speeds of the buses on the proposed 20mph roads where I work.
bad company said:
I see your points Bob but it is so refreshing to see somebody fighting back against BRAKE and the '20s Plenty' brigade.
I have followed them on Twitter and liked on Facebook as I just wanted to give them some support.
Yeah I agree that they're needed against the pro-20 campaigners. I have followed them on Twitter and liked on Facebook as I just wanted to give them some support.
As part of my job, I'm signed up to the (blood-boiling) 20's Plenty For Us mailing/yahoo group. They've emailed out today, asking all the campaigners to provide contact details for local councillors so they can send out (this is copy/pasted):
Context - reasons for Total 20mph as a default;
A request to publically pledge support for Total 20 policy or at least reply by 1st May;
A promise to publicise results of what they say/ whether they respond from 2 May onwards in local media and on our site and through local branches of 20’s Plenty for Us.
So basically they want public statements of support, or they'll go round the day afterwards publicising that these councillors are baby killers or some such over-dramatic stuff.
As a traffic management professional quite heavily involved in this area, it makes me irate.
OpulentBob said:
Interesting and a good foil to the 20's Plenty flagwavers.
But very very skewed writing in there.
For example, the bus companies. Stagecoach (at least, Stagecoach in my city) have got a history of being anti-20mph, but cannot give any evidence of WHY 20mph would cause unavoidable delays. The surveyed average bus speeds are already 19-21mph, so new limits shouldn't delay them.
You are aware of the difference between average speed and maximum speed?But very very skewed writing in there.
For example, the bus companies. Stagecoach (at least, Stagecoach in my city) have got a history of being anti-20mph, but cannot give any evidence of WHY 20mph would cause unavoidable delays. The surveyed average bus speeds are already 19-21mph, so new limits shouldn't delay them.
Esp with something that stops a lot, like ummmm.... a bus?
creampuff said:
OpulentBob said:
Interesting and a good foil to the 20's Plenty flagwavers.
But very very skewed writing in there.
For example, the bus companies. Stagecoach (at least, Stagecoach in my city) have got a history of being anti-20mph, but cannot give any evidence of WHY 20mph would cause unavoidable delays. The surveyed average bus speeds are already 19-21mph, so new limits shouldn't delay them.
You are aware of the difference between average speed and maximum speed?But very very skewed writing in there.
For example, the bus companies. Stagecoach (at least, Stagecoach in my city) have got a history of being anti-20mph, but cannot give any evidence of WHY 20mph would cause unavoidable delays. The surveyed average bus speeds are already 19-21mph, so new limits shouldn't delay them.
Esp with something that stops a lot, like ummmm.... a bus?
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