Beware ! Traffic Police and civil parking matters
Discussion
vonhosen said:
Don't use TFLs network then.
I don't.If TFL are funding anything it should be BTP for the railway infrastructure in any case - not the Met.
What has using/ not using the TFL network got to do with police officers assisting TFL's agents to collect debts anyway ?.
Your loyalty to the Met is obvious. It is mis-guided in this case (in my opinion).
NH1 said:
I know police can stop you for any reason they want, but am I right in thinking there does have to be a reason all the same. If you are stopped and you ask for what reason, is a random stop a good enough excuse. I only ask because a lot of people carry dash cams nowadays which rebuff the usual things like "you were weaving slightly" or "you didn't give way properly" etc.
No. S.163 RTA 1988 - A Constable (in uniform) can stop any vehicle - no reason required.
vonhosen said:
If you are on the TFL network then their bailiffs may find you. There is nothing to stop them hanging around the fringes of Police work on that network.
But we're not talking about bailiffs "hanging around the fringes of police work) are we ?We're talking about police officers stopping vehicles because there are outstanding TFL "fines" registered against the vehicle and assisting TFL's agents.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts.
What do you think about that specific act ? (The act is stopping vehicles under section 163 of The Road Traffic Act 1988 which is a specific police/ highways agency power - and that act is done because the bailiff's ANPR system pings the vehicle).
Red 4 said:
vonhosen said:
Don't use TFLs network then.
I don't.If TFL are funding anything it should be BTP for the railway infrastructure in any case - not the Met.
What has using/ not using the TFL network got to do with police officers assisting TFL's agents to collect debts anyway ?.
Your loyalty to the Met is obvious. It is mis-guided in this case (in my opinion).
If you are on the TFL network then their bailiffs may find you. There is nothing to stop them hanging around the fringes of Police work on that network.
Red 4 said:
vonhosen said:
If you are on the TFL network then their bailiffs may find you. There is nothing to stop them hanging around the fringes of Police work on that network.
But we're not talking about bailiffs "hanging around the fringes of police work) are we ?We're talking about police officers stopping vehicles because there are outstanding TFL "fines" registered against the vehicle and assisting TFL's agents.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts.
What do you think about that specific act ? (The act is stopping vehicles under section 163 of The Road Traffic Act 1988 which is a specific police/ highways agency power).
If the bailiffs then step in after that then fine the Police are just there to prevent BOP at that point.
Red 4 said:
vonhosen said:
They don't collect the debt.
TFL are funding them for the transport network & crime on it.
The bailiffs would have recovered the debt.
I didn't say they did - but police officers are stopping vehicles which are flagged up by bailiff's ANPR systems.TFL are funding them for the transport network & crime on it.
The bailiffs would have recovered the debt.
They are assisting bailiffs to collect a debt and using police powers to stop the vehicles under the RTA.
Dodgy ground ...
TFL pay for police (you say). Police help their agents.
I don't think you'll be able to convince me that is right, von. No matter what you say.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 8th April 22:09
.After an outcry, GMP withdrew this particular info from their mobile ANPR equipment...
vonhosen said:
I don't have a problem with Police stopping people under Sec 163, no doubt the persons identity would have been checked to satisfy that the vehicle was being legally driven on the roads.
If the bailiffs then step in after that then fine the Police are just there to prevent BOP at that point.
Von - you are avoiding the question.If the bailiffs then step in after that then fine the Police are just there to prevent BOP at that point.
If you don't want to answer that's fine - just say so.
For the avoidance of doubt I will repeat the question ...
What do you think about TFL's agents (bailiffs) ANPR systems flagging up vehicles with outstanding TFL fines registered against them and using police officers to stop the vehicles under The Road Traffic Act (using police powers) in order that TFL's agents can deal with the driver and enforce the "fine/ recover the debt ?
Red 4 said:
vonhosen said:
I don't have a problem with Police stopping people under Sec 163, no doubt the persons identity would have been checked to satisfy that the vehicle was being legally driven on the roads.
If the bailiffs then step in after that then fine the Police are just there to prevent BOP at that point.
Von - you are avoiding the question.If the bailiffs then step in after that then fine the Police are just there to prevent BOP at that point.
If you don't want to answer that's fine - just say so.
For the avoidance of doubt I will repeat the question ...
What do you think about TFL's agents (bailiffs) ANPR systems flagging up vehicles with outstanding TFL fines registered against them and using police officers to stop the vehicles under The Road Traffic Act (using police powers) in order that TFL's agents can deal with the driver and enforce the "fine/ recover the debt ?
I don't believe the Police will just be stopping the vehicle for the bailiff.
vonhosen said:
As I said, I'm sure that the Police will be checking that the vehicle is being legally driven on the road. The bailiffs may step in after that.
I don't believe the Police will just be stopping the vehicle for the bailiff.
In that case I suggest you read NH1's link - see post 3.I don't believe the Police will just be stopping the vehicle for the bailiff.
There have (apparently) been 3 operations in the Metropolitan Police area since September 2013 where police have worked in conjunction with local councils and their enforcement officers/ bailiffs and stopped vehicles due to outstanding parking "fines".
If you believe bailiffs have nothing better to do than blindly follow police officers around on the off-chance that the vehicles they stop may have outstanding fines registered against them I suggest you are deluded - I know you're not btw, you're just doing a (poor) job of acting daft.
Here's a tip - sometimes the police act incorrectly (for many reasons). Poor judgement from force hierarchy is not uncommon. If you continue to defend the police no matter what actions they take or policies they pursue you may be institutionalised/ brainwashed.
As a former police officer who has been around the block more than a few times, I'm happy to say I'm not. I just say it as it is (I always have). The Met appear to have got this one spectacularly wrong in my opinion. Like I said - it's a slippery slope.
Red 4 said:
vonhosen said:
As I said, I'm sure that the Police will be checking that the vehicle is being legally driven on the road. The bailiffs may step in after that.
I don't believe the Police will just be stopping the vehicle for the bailiff.
In that case I suggest you read NH1's link - see post 3.I don't believe the Police will just be stopping the vehicle for the bailiff.
There have (apparently) been 3 operations in the Metropolitan Police area since September 2013 where police have worked in conjunction with local councils and their enforcement officers/ bailiffs and stopped vehicles due to outstanding parking "fines".
If you believe bailiffs have nothing better to do than blindly follow police officers around on the off-chance that the vehicles they stop may have outstanding fines registered against them I suggest you are deluded - I know you're not btw, you're just doing a (poor) job of acting daft.
Here's a tip - sometimes the police act incorrectly (for many reasons). Poor judgement from force hierarchy is not uncommon. If you continue to defend the police no matter what actions they take or policies they pursue you may be institutionalised/ brainwashed.
As a former police officer who has been around the block more than a few times, I'm happy to say I'm not. I just say it as it is (I always have). The Met appear to have got this one spectacularly wrong in my opinion. Like I said - it's a slippery slope.
If they were only stopping vehicles of interest to the bailiffs & not checking that the vehicles were being legally driven then I'd agree with you, but, as I say, I don't believe that to be the case.
vonhosen said:
SV8Predator said:
vonhosen said:
I don't believe the Police will just be stopping the vehicle for the bailiff.
Aw.. Bless!vonhosen said:
As I said, I don't believe they won't be checking that the vehicles are being legally driven etc & I don't believe they'll only be stopping vehicles of potential interest to the bailiffs.
But police officers ARE stopping vehicles that have been pinged by bailiff's ANPR systems - according to the link.As I said, if you think the bailiffs are not working in conjunction with the police you may be beyond hope
Red 4 said:
vonhosen said:
As I said, I don't believe they won't be checking that the vehicles are being legally driven etc & I don't believe they'll only be stopping vehicles of potential interest to the bailiffs.
But police officers ARE stopping vehicles that have been pinged by bailiff's ANPR systems - according to the link.As I said, if you think the bailiffs are not working in conjunction with the police you may be beyond hope
As I said, I believe they'll stop any flagged vehicles (& non flagged that take their fancy), not just those the bailiffs may be interested in & they'll check the validity of those vehicles. When that's done any other agency present (be it VOSA, DWP, Bailiffs etc) can do what they are interested in.
vonhosen said:
They fund officers in BTP, City of London & Met. They need greater coverage than BTP (a stretched national force) alone offer with all the buses, taxis, licenced minicabs, red routes & network etc etc under their control.
If you are on the TFL network then their bailiffs may find you. There is nothing to stop them hanging around the fringes of Police work on that network.
First step to competitive tendering... you'll be working for Capita next and collecting for Wonga soon.If you are on the TFL network then their bailiffs may find you. There is nothing to stop them hanging around the fringes of Police work on that network.
eldar said:
vonhosen said:
They fund officers in BTP, City of London & Met. They need greater coverage than BTP (a stretched national force) alone offer with all the buses, taxis, licenced minicabs, red routes & network etc etc under their control.
If you are on the TFL network then their bailiffs may find you. There is nothing to stop them hanging around the fringes of Police work on that network.
First step to competitive tendering... you'll be working for Capita next and collecting for Wonga soon.If you are on the TFL network then their bailiffs may find you. There is nothing to stop them hanging around the fringes of Police work on that network.
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