Beware ! Traffic Police and civil parking matters
Discussion
Zod said:
Of course it's a civil matter. There is no question whatsoever about this. TfL fines are not a criminal matter and therefore have nothing to do with the Police.
There's some serious crossed wires here.The police didn't enforce the fine, the balif did.
A court appointed balif working for TFL.
If the police set up a 'checkpoint' they tend to stop any car with a 'flag'.
It makes sense for a TFL fine to be flagged, especially as TFL maintain APR in London.
So it makes sense for the checkpoint, set up by both the police and TFL to deal with both police and TFL issues.
Both are government agencies.
If the police start taking a balif in the backseat and pulling over drivers I might question what's going on.
But if it's just a regular random checkpoint picking up TFL fines too then it's not a problem.
Devil2575 said:
So what?
Who cares?
Other than perhaps people who have parking tickets and are trying to get away with it by not informing the DVLA of a change of address?
I've had plenty of parking tickets in my time and i've paid all of them without any problems at all. I also prioritised changing my address with the DVLA when I moved house. I have very little sympathy for people who can't seem to manage this and even less when they complain that the authorities caught up with them during a Police stop.
Good. Don't park like a d
head in future and if you do man up and pay up.
I have had to pay one parking ticket in the last decade. It's not a question of sympathy for people with parking tickets, but one of important principle: the Police have no role in enforcement of debts.Who cares?
Other than perhaps people who have parking tickets and are trying to get away with it by not informing the DVLA of a change of address?
I've had plenty of parking tickets in my time and i've paid all of them without any problems at all. I also prioritised changing my address with the DVLA when I moved house. I have very little sympathy for people who can't seem to manage this and even less when they complain that the authorities caught up with them during a Police stop.
Good. Don't park like a d
head in future and if you do man up and pay up.Zod said:
I have had to pay one parking ticket in the last decade. It's not a question of sympathy for people with parking tickets, but one of important principle: the Police have no role in enforcement of debts.
Given how some people don't seem to want to pay their debts I have no problem with the Police helping out if they can.I really don't see it as an important principle.
testosterone said:
Breadvan72 said:
4/10 for the final sentence, but otherwise not enough swearing, "haven't you got burglars to catch", and why oh whying. Overall: poor rant, 2/10.
PS: "2 PM one morning", eh? Must have been a hell of a night.
Actually it was to visit the 24 hour pharmacy. Also 2pm in the morning so must have been a hell of a night ?PS: "2 PM one morning", eh? Must have been a hell of a night.
Where do you live Norfolk ? 2 pm is when a lot of people here just start warming up. This post is more of a warning to fellow motorists.
vonhosen said:
Please produce your driving licence, insurance etc is enough.
Although it would help if Officers were told this to save them making up silly 'reasons' for the stop. Had it a few times when I was a lot younger and always driving about in the wee small hours (I was a driver, not a drinker, then
).No complaints about being stopped (other than the usual
) but why do some feel the need to lie?Devil2575 said:
Zod said:
I have had to pay one parking ticket in the last decade. It's not a question of sympathy for people with parking tickets, but one of important principle: the Police have no role in enforcement of debts.
Given how some people don't seem to want to pay their debts I have no problem with the Police helping out if they can.I really don't see it as an important principle.
Snowboy said:
There's some serious crossed wires here.
The police didn't enforce the fine, the balif did.
A court appointed balif working for TFL.
No crossed wires.The police didn't enforce the fine, the balif did.
A court appointed balif working for TFL.
Without assistance from the police the vehicles cannot be stopped (a bailiff can't stop 'em)
That is police assisting with debt recovery. Simple.
Devil2575 said:
Zod said:
I have had to pay one parking ticket in the last decade. It's not a question of sympathy for people with parking tickets, but one of important principle: the Police have no role in enforcement of debts.
Given how some people don't seem to want to pay their debts I have no problem with the Police helping out if they can.I really don't see it as an important principle.
On the other hand it is concerning, if it is the case, that the Police are involved in the collection of debts without the proper authority to do so. I do not know enough about the mechanics of debt collection to sprout from any legal ground on this so am very much an interested observer.
What I am seeing at the minute is a situation not a million miles away from that of Putin and Crimea. On the base facts that are known and admitted all above board, scratch the surface and there is a mine field of legal nuances to consider. What if the OP had got back in their car and driven off? If the Police had stopped them what would be their justification? Failing to obey the lawful instruction of a Police officer? Was that instruction lawful though? Did the officer have the authority to demand that the OP stay put and deal with the bailiff? If the OP had stood there and then, after speaking to the bailiff, got in his car and just drove off would the officer have had any authority to prevent him from doing so? Seems to me that there are questions here that are valid, even if the answer is still "because is Police init."
Red 4 said:
OllieC said:
another reason to stay away from London
£670 for a parking infringement (including costs).Madness.
Red 4 said:
Snowboy said:
There's some serious crossed wires here.
The police didn't enforce the fine, the balif did.
A court appointed balif working for TFL.
No crossed wires.The police didn't enforce the fine, the balif did.
A court appointed balif working for TFL.
Without assistance from the police the vehicles cannot be stopped (a bailiff can't stop 'em)
That is police assisting with debt recovery. Simple.
They can be asked to accompany balifs.
There's a mechanism where people who don't pay their court fines, or don't attend court to discuss the fines can have warrants for their arrest issued.
Note - this isn't a parking eye fine, or a dodgy dept agency.
This is TFL, a government agency.
jimbop1 said:
"Normal arrogant traffic police officer" Normal is it? Do you get stopped often?
"obviously there is so little crime the police have got nothing better to do" It makes me laugh when people say this. You know they have.. You need to grow up.
Reading your post makes me wonder if you even own a car ? Have you ever seen the numerous police programmes on tv and not wondered why they go over the top when arreesting people ? Or did you not read the recent article about the woman cautioned for taking a drink whilst in stationary traffic ? Obviously not."obviously there is so little crime the police have got nothing better to do" It makes me laugh when people say this. You know they have.. You need to grow up.
I have never been arrested and i am a law abiding citizen and i have no issues with the regular police. However, i have had a lot of differences of opinion with the traffic police, the last occassion when i was stopped at midday on a bright sunny day in south london for having a blown stop light bulb. Instead of a polite conversation advising me of the blown bulb i get a lecture telling me how i must check my lights everyday and for me to explain why i think he should not give me three points and a thirty pound fine !
Its an attitude problem that traffic police have.
Your second point is very strange if it makes you laugh. I find it very sad that traffic police are allowed to behave in the way they do. They seem to pick and choose what they want to do and seem to go for the easy option each time.
vonhosen said:
A vehicle with any marker raises my interest.
As I said (may times) I don't believe they'd have been stopping only vehicles of interest to the bailiffs & many of those stopped won't have been of interest to the bailiffs.
Are you saying it is now routine for the police to apply markers for non criminal matters such as outstanding debt?As I said (may times) I don't believe they'd have been stopping only vehicles of interest to the bailiffs & many of those stopped won't have been of interest to the bailiffs.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 9th April 07:00
If so, how much does it cost?
Zod said:
Devil2575 said:
Zod said:
I have had to pay one parking ticket in the last decade. It's not a question of sympathy for people with parking tickets, but one of important principle: the Police have no role in enforcement of debts.
Given how some people don't seem to want to pay their debts I have no problem with the Police helping out if they can.I really don't see it as an important principle.
I just don't agree with you.
Breadvan72 said:
4/10 for the final sentence, but otherwise not enough swearing, "haven't you got burglars to catch", and why oh whying. Overall: poor rant, 2/10.
But surely, for you and the ilk you own, one of the main perks of people having huge, rapidly escalating fines sent out by CCTV for trivial contraventions that affected no-one is that you get to see some of the victims posting here?I mean, this way, you don't have to just imagine their misery (sweet enough though that would be), you get to directly observe and "tissue-enjoy" it, AND post a smug, condescending, pseudo-intellectual "response" which addresses none of the PP's points and just nitpicks!
It warms the heart to see you so eager to crow and rub it in when an ordinary person has their day/week/month needlessly ruined over something so trifling.(Oh no! Please don't give me a score out of 10 as well! How can anyone hope to counter such brilliance?)
Snowboy said:
But, the police do already assist in some ways.
They can be asked to accompany balifs.
There's a mechanism where people who don't pay their court fines, or don't attend court to discuss the fines can have warrants for their arrest issued.
Note - this isn't a parking eye fine, or a dodgy dept agency.
This is TFL, a government agency.
Police can attend to prevent a breach of the peace. That is a policing function.They can be asked to accompany balifs.
There's a mechanism where people who don't pay their court fines, or don't attend court to discuss the fines can have warrants for their arrest issued.
Note - this isn't a parking eye fine, or a dodgy dept agency.
This is TFL, a government agency.
But this goes much further than that.
Do you think that ALL unpaid civil debts involving local authorities/ government agencies should involve the police ?
PS. Arrest warrants (non-payment of fines, etc) are issued by criminal courts - not civil courts.
testosterone said:
Reading your post makes me wonder if you even own a car ? Have you ever seen the numerous police programmes on tv and not wondered why they go over the top when arreesting people ? Or did you not read the recent article about the woman cautioned for taking a drink whilst in stationary traffic ? Obviously not.
I've watched the numerous programs and not thought that they go over the top at all. The article was in the Daily Mail so probably made up.
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