DPF removal and Insurance
Discussion
Magic919 said:
Osinjak said:
Magic919 said:
Is 'illegal' in quotes any different to being illegal? What is the new law that is enacted from that date regarding DPFs?
Yes it is, it indicates that I'm not entirely sure about it hence the apostrophes. For the last part of your question, the info is in the AA link above.Osinjak said:
Magic919 said:
Osinjak said:
Magic919 said:
Is 'illegal' in quotes any different to being illegal? What is the new law that is enacted from that date regarding DPFs?
Yes it is, it indicates that I'm not entirely sure about it hence the apostrophes. For the last part of your question, the info is in the AA link above.Just to chime in here.
Passing an MOT and having a vehicle that's legal to use on the road are two separate things.
You can pass an MOT with a car that's illegal to use on the road, and you can have a road legal car that may fail an MOT
To the fine letter of the law, any modification to the vehicle that means it can no longer meet the emissions criteria that was set when it was released is illegal.
This covers remaps, decats, DPF removal and EGR blanking or removal.
The chances of proceedings for one of the above offences is virtually zero though.
From Feb this year, on diesel cars that had a cat or DPF fitted as standard it will be an MOT fail if the DPF or cat has been removed.
It's currently only a visual inspection so if it appears a cat or DPF is present then as long as it passes the smoke density test, it will still pass.
Currently EGR deletes and remaps are MOT failures in parts of Europe and we're trying to follow their lead so i wouldn't be surprised if they appear at some point over here as well in the near future.
Passing an MOT and having a vehicle that's legal to use on the road are two separate things.
You can pass an MOT with a car that's illegal to use on the road, and you can have a road legal car that may fail an MOT
To the fine letter of the law, any modification to the vehicle that means it can no longer meet the emissions criteria that was set when it was released is illegal.
This covers remaps, decats, DPF removal and EGR blanking or removal.
The chances of proceedings for one of the above offences is virtually zero though.
From Feb this year, on diesel cars that had a cat or DPF fitted as standard it will be an MOT fail if the DPF or cat has been removed.
It's currently only a visual inspection so if it appears a cat or DPF is present then as long as it passes the smoke density test, it will still pass.
Currently EGR deletes and remaps are MOT failures in parts of Europe and we're trying to follow their lead so i wouldn't be surprised if they appear at some point over here as well in the near future.
As far as i know, your insurance would still be valid as long as the modification didn't contribute to the accident.
But you would still be liable to make any payments for the extra rise in premium from when then undeclared mod was fitted.
I'm with a broker who specialises in performance vehicles. I've got a VAG 1.9 TDi with a 2.5" turbo back exhaust fitted. The cat was removed and a "ghost cat" was put in place instead (cat heatshields welded over the top of the pipe)
When i delcared it to my insurance, i told them a full performance exhaust system was fitted and all was sorted.
But you would still be liable to make any payments for the extra rise in premium from when then undeclared mod was fitted.
I'm with a broker who specialises in performance vehicles. I've got a VAG 1.9 TDi with a 2.5" turbo back exhaust fitted. The cat was removed and a "ghost cat" was put in place instead (cat heatshields welded over the top of the pipe)
When i delcared it to my insurance, i told them a full performance exhaust system was fitted and all was sorted.
Phone your insurer and ask them?
Each one has its own underwriting criteria - as far as i'm aware there is nothing to say that they have to decline 'technically illegal' modifications - although it would be frowned upon and possibly seen as a moral hazard.
The insurer takes your premium - if your a good risk you dont claim and they make a profit - does removing a DPF make you a good or bad risk? Thats the insurer's decision - so phone them and ask!!
As for rejecting a claim - read your policy booklet!! What does it say? It will refuse claims for unroadworthy vehicles? If you declare the DPF delete, and they agree to insure you how can they then refuse to cover you for something they accepted in the first place?!
Each one has its own underwriting criteria - as far as i'm aware there is nothing to say that they have to decline 'technically illegal' modifications - although it would be frowned upon and possibly seen as a moral hazard.
The insurer takes your premium - if your a good risk you dont claim and they make a profit - does removing a DPF make you a good or bad risk? Thats the insurer's decision - so phone them and ask!!
As for rejecting a claim - read your policy booklet!! What does it say? It will refuse claims for unroadworthy vehicles? If you declare the DPF delete, and they agree to insure you how can they then refuse to cover you for something they accepted in the first place?!
Retroman said:
As far as i know, your insurance would still be valid as long as the modification didn't contribute to the accident.
But you would still be liable to make any payments for the extra rise in premium from when then undeclared mod was fitted.
I'm with a broker who specialises in performance vehicles. I've got a VAG 1.9 TDi with a 2.5" turbo back exhaust fitted. The cat was removed and a "ghost cat" was put in place instead (cat heatshields welded over the top of the pipe)
When i delcared it to my insurance, i told them a full performance exhaust system was fitted and all was sorted.
I think it's the wording on the AA's website that makes it ambiguous, it suggests that removing the DPF will mean the car will fail the emissions regulations which means the car will be illegal and that it may invalidate the insurance. So even if the removal of the DPF didn't cause an accident, you still may not be insured because of the apparently illegal modification. All this is new since Feb 2014. How likely is it that an insurance company would go rooting around your DPF in the event of a claim? But you would still be liable to make any payments for the extra rise in premium from when then undeclared mod was fitted.
I'm with a broker who specialises in performance vehicles. I've got a VAG 1.9 TDi with a 2.5" turbo back exhaust fitted. The cat was removed and a "ghost cat" was put in place instead (cat heatshields welded over the top of the pipe)
When i delcared it to my insurance, i told them a full performance exhaust system was fitted and all was sorted.
Osinjak said:
I think it's the wording on the AA's website that makes it ambiguous, it suggests that removing the DPF will mean the car will fail the emissions regulations which means the car will be illegal and that it may invalidate the insurance. So even if the removal of the DPF didn't cause an accident, you still may not be insured because of the apparently illegal modification. All this is new since Feb 2014. How likely is it that an insurance company would go rooting around your DPF in the event of a claim?
DPF removal has always been illegal IIRC, it's just recently it's became an MOT failure as well to bring the MOT in line with current regulations regarding emissions legality.I would take anything like this on the AA website with a pinch of salt, as they are often wrong or misguided with their advise.
Retroman said:
DPF removal has always been illegal IIRC, it's just recently it's became an MOT failure as well to bring the MOT in line with current regulations regarding emissions legality.
I would take anything like this on the AA website with a pinch of salt, as they are often wrong or misguided with their advise.
Aye, it all seems a bit woolly really.I would take anything like this on the AA website with a pinch of salt, as they are often wrong or misguided with their advise.
DPF removal was not previously illegal nor is it now. What maybe be illigal is driving a vehicle which does not comply with emissions regulations, as far as I am aware there are no strict laws yet on this (for diesels), so it is neither an offence to remove a dpf or drive a vehicle with one that has been removed.
What has changed is simply that vosa has choosen to no longer automatically allow vehicles to remain in service which have been modified in this way.
This has always been their right they just have not done so untill now, they are required to automatically allow any vehicle which has been type approved to remain in service so long as it remains compliant with it's type approved design and does not break any other laws.
What has changed is simply that vosa has choosen to no longer automatically allow vehicles to remain in service which have been modified in this way.
This has always been their right they just have not done so untill now, they are required to automatically allow any vehicle which has been type approved to remain in service so long as it remains compliant with it's type approved design and does not break any other laws.
ging84 said:
DPF removal was not previously illegal nor is it now. What maybe be illigal is driving a vehicle which does not comply with emissions regulations, as far as I am aware there are no strict laws yet on this (for diesels), so it is neither an offence to remove a dpf or drive a vehicle with one that has been removed.
What has changed is simply that vosa has choosen to no longer automatically allow vehicles to remain in service which have been modified in this way.
This has always been their right they just have not done so untill now, they are required to automatically allow any vehicle which has been type approved to remain in service so long as it remains compliant with it's type approved design and does not break any other laws.
If the vehicle is modified in such a way where it no longer meets the emissions requirements that were set when the vehicle is new, then it is an offense.What has changed is simply that vosa has choosen to no longer automatically allow vehicles to remain in service which have been modified in this way.
This has always been their right they just have not done so untill now, they are required to automatically allow any vehicle which has been type approved to remain in service so long as it remains compliant with it's type approved design and does not break any other laws.
Removing the DPF or cat on a diesel will cause it to no longer meet these requirements. If it could meet the requirements without these parts, then manufacturers wouldn't waste lots of money designing, developing then fitting the unessasary parts.
Retroman said:
If the vehicle is modified in such a way where it no longer meets the emissions requirements that were set when the vehicle is new, then it is an offense.
Removing the DPF or cat on a diesel will cause it to no longer meet these requirements. If it could meet the requirements without these parts, then manufacturers wouldn't waste lots of money designing, developing then fitting the unessasary parts.
and what are those emissions requirements?Removing the DPF or cat on a diesel will cause it to no longer meet these requirements. If it could meet the requirements without these parts, then manufacturers wouldn't waste lots of money designing, developing then fitting the unessasary parts.
as far as i am aware there are currently none for diesels other than visible emissions
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