Fraudulent injury claim after bump
Discussion
g3org3y said:
With a whiplash claim, it is relatively easy to get 'evidence' in your favour with a report from a doctor.
Trying to get evidence that goes the other way (i.e. disproving a fraudulent claim), now that is hard (private investigators, videos, photos etc).
FWIW, the last three or four patients I've treated for whiplash did not need to return for further consultations or be signed off from work. Perhaps I work in an honest area.
Still quite different from the counter of an aggrieved Defendant calling fraud Trying to get evidence that goes the other way (i.e. disproving a fraudulent claim), now that is hard (private investigators, videos, photos etc).
FWIW, the last three or four patients I've treated for whiplash did not need to return for further consultations or be signed off from work. Perhaps I work in an honest area.
Ignoring semantics ('disproving' isn't an issue) I don't disagree in general terms but was unaware the Court should only concern itself with easy questions.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Seems the 2 biggest complaints against insurers are:
They never pay out and
They pay out too easily.
not exactly ,its more a case of insurance companies will generally do whatever keeps their costs lowest, which very often isnt in the interests of their clients.They never pay out and
They pay out too easily.
Notmotor insurance but take for instance this example...EXACTLY as it happened...
Product installed by installer A, 11 months later product fails and causes substantial damage to customers property. The manufacturer denies liability and Installer A public liabilty insurer has the appliance collected and performs a forensic deconstruction of the product to produce an independent report.
The independent report finds that the product had a manufacturing defect at the point of production and was always going to fail,in fact it was amazing that it had lasted 11 months! The insurers inform Installer A that they will be seeking reimbursement for costs and any payout given to the customer who sustained damage to their property and it would end up as a non fault incident with the manufacturer paying all costs.
Installer A now happy forgets about whole incident..fast forward 6 months to insurance renewal time...
Insurance compamny inform Installer A that his premium is due a 100% inrease due to a 40K claim for an incident 6 months earlier!
On asking why they didnt chase the manufacturer for the reimbursement it was stated that it was cheaper for the insurance company to not fight the case....
so even though Installer A was proven not to be at fault in any way as its cheaper for them the Insured client gets stuffed...which isnt really how insurance is supposed to work...you are paying them to work in your interests,not their own?
YES or NO..
Purity14 said:
I had someone do this to me.
I had photos and videos of them scuba diving and dancing on holiday weeks after the accident.
They said they couldnt work, shower themselves without help, or even put dirty clothes in the washing machine.
Insurance companies just pay out, its the path of least resistance.
My thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&...
If you were that confident why didn't you really fight it rather than just moan or were you worried about being on the hook for the money yourself?I had photos and videos of them scuba diving and dancing on holiday weeks after the accident.
They said they couldnt work, shower themselves without help, or even put dirty clothes in the washing machine.
Insurance companies just pay out, its the path of least resistance.
My thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&...
Easy to take a principled stance on the decision of your insurer when its an insured loss.
hedgefinder said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Seems the 2 biggest complaints against insurers are:
They never pay out and
They pay out too easily.
not exactly ,its more a case of insurance companies will generally do whatever keeps their costs lowest, which very often isnt in the interests of their clients.They never pay out and
They pay out too easily.
Notmotor insurance but take for instance this example...EXACTLY as it happened...
Product installed by installer A, 11 months later product fails and causes substantial damage to customers property. The manufacturer denies liability and Installer A public liabilty insurer has the appliance collected and performs a forensic deconstruction of the product to produce an independent report.
The independent report finds that the product had a manufacturing defect at the point of production and was always going to fail,in fact it was amazing that it had lasted 11 months! The insurers inform Installer A that they will be seeking reimbursement for costs and any payout given to the customer who sustained damage to their property and it would end up as a non fault incident with the manufacturer paying all costs.
Installer A now happy forgets about whole incident..fast forward 6 months to insurance renewal time...
Insurance compamny inform Installer A that his premium is due a 100% inrease due to a 40K claim for an incident 6 months earlier!
On asking why they didnt chase the manufacturer for the reimbursement it was stated that it was cheaper for the insurance company to not fight the case....
so even though Installer A was proven not to be at fault in any way as its cheaper for them the Insured client gets stuffed...which isnt really how insurance is supposed to work...you are paying them to work in your interests,not their own?
YES or NO..
hedgefinder said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Seems the 2 biggest complaints against insurers are:
They never pay out and
They pay out too easily.
not exactly ,its more a case of insurance companies will generally do whatever keeps their costs lowest, which very often isnt in the interests of their clients.They never pay out and
They pay out too easily.
Notmotor insurance but take for instance this example...EXACTLY as it happened...
Product installed by installer A, 11 months later product fails and causes substantial damage to customers property. The manufacturer denies liability and Installer A public liabilty insurer has the appliance collected and performs a forensic deconstruction of the product to produce an independent report.
The independent report finds that the product had a manufacturing defect at the point of production and was always going to fail,in fact it was amazing that it had lasted 11 months! The insurers inform Installer A that they will be seeking reimbursement for costs and any payout given to the customer who sustained damage to their property and it would end up as a non fault incident with the manufacturer paying all costs.
Installer A now happy forgets about whole incident..fast forward 6 months to insurance renewal time...
Insurance compamny inform Installer A that his premium is due a 100% inrease due to a 40K claim for an incident 6 months earlier!
On asking why they didnt chase the manufacturer for the reimbursement it was stated that it was cheaper for the insurance company to not fight the case....
so even though Installer A was proven not to be at fault in any way as its cheaper for them the Insured client gets stuffed...which isnt really how insurance is supposed to work...you are paying them to work in your interests,not their own?
YES or NO..
They wouldn't pay out £40K for fun. They did that because years of experience of hundreds of cases (as opposed to the one case in your experience) tells them that it's the lowest cost option, which is in the best interests of them and Installer A.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
So you would prefer it if the insurer had said to Installer A "premium is due a 200% increase because we've racked up costs of £80K trying to recover from the manufacturer."
They wouldn't pay out £40K for fun. They did that because years of experience of hundreds of cases (as opposed to the one case in your experience) tells them that it's the lowest cost option, which is in the best interests of them and Installer A.
the manufacturer would be liable for any costs incurred if they followed through with the case,or is there a defence against proven liability now?They wouldn't pay out £40K for fun. They did that because years of experience of hundreds of cases (as opposed to the one case in your experience) tells them that it's the lowest cost option, which is in the best interests of them and Installer A.
and fyi they settled with the manufacturer 50/50, so the manufacturer wasnt denying liability.
Edited by hedgefinder on Friday 25th April 19:07
hedgefinder said:
the manufacturer would be liable for any costs incurred if they followed through with the case,or is there a defence against proven liability now?
Only if they won. And only if the award was in excess of any offer that they'd put forward to settle. And the case could drag on for years, so the 200% increase based on costs incurred but not yet recovered could still apply.I had someone claim whiplash, after they mounted a pavement to avoid colliding with me. Not exactly a violent collision - we did not even touch. Insurance Company paid out £3k. I did not find out until 3 years later when I left the firm and needed my claims record. Remain absolutely staggered.
They don't pay out everything, it depends. My next door neighbour used to work in the offices of a no win no fee company, he now works for NFU as an accident specialist. The NWNF types make it easy for people to ratchet up a claim without actually doing anything illegal them selves by asking leading questions.
Now for example, my wife was t boned in her MR2 by a young girl in a Corsa which pushed her sideways almost writing the car off. She has genuinely suffered from a bad shoulder since and has been having proper treatment.
As my wife is switched on she got the girl to sign that it was her fault and recorded her voice saying that, which was good as her story changed after she got home to her dad, "she was in shock etc.". Anyway they have admitted liability so wife has to go to see a Doctor who confirms her injury and then asks what I would call leading questions. My wife just said the truth and left it at that, but she understood fully what was happening as our neighbour had explained this at a party a few years ago.
The company appointed by our insurers are going to get a lot of money for their letters as did the Doctor for his 15 page report.
Now for example, my wife was t boned in her MR2 by a young girl in a Corsa which pushed her sideways almost writing the car off. She has genuinely suffered from a bad shoulder since and has been having proper treatment.
As my wife is switched on she got the girl to sign that it was her fault and recorded her voice saying that, which was good as her story changed after she got home to her dad, "she was in shock etc.". Anyway they have admitted liability so wife has to go to see a Doctor who confirms her injury and then asks what I would call leading questions. My wife just said the truth and left it at that, but she understood fully what was happening as our neighbour had explained this at a party a few years ago.
The company appointed by our insurers are going to get a lot of money for their letters as did the Doctor for his 15 page report.
surveyor said:
I had someone claim whiplash, after they mounted a pavement to avoid colliding with me. Not exactly a violent collision - we did not even touch. Insurance Company paid out £3k. I did not find out until 3 years later when I left the firm and needed my claims record. Remain absolutely staggered.
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