Target Culture

Author
Discussion

Tannedbaldhead

Original Poster:

2,952 posts

131 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
Poor BiBs. If they wanted to to work in a hard driven target focused industry they would have become double glazing salesmen.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/crime-courts/po...

Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Friday 18th April 11:45


Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Friday 18th April 11:45

Brigand

2,544 posts

168 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
Well that's me in trouble then, for many year's I've had my mums address on my licence, and still do. I used to move around a lot with my previous job, so rather than going through the hassle of DVLA every time I moved, I just used my mums address for all correspondence. She lets me know if anything arrives in the post for me.

I always changed my insurance details though. (Ten minutes on the phone is easier than running the risk of losing my V5 to the mail or DVLA)

carinaman

21,224 posts

171 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
A few weeks ago, you can find my reference to it here at the time, someone saying they were a Scottish police officer of 28 years experience called into Radio 4's Any Answers programme saying that the 'Metropolitisation' of the new unified Scottish police service chasing targets was alienating members of the public AND serving police officers. It would seem that this article from The Herald Scotland confirms that view expressed.

It's bound to get the backs of most right minded people up. If only the police and the 'Independent' watchdog, the IPCC, were so good at sticking to and applying such rigid adherence to the rules and misdemeanours eh?

'Do unto others......

Your Comments section of the BBC website 10 February 2005 following the Panorama programme on Paedophile William Goad - two comments from officers involved in the case at the bottom said:
Just highlighted that the money paid to the police by us through the tax system is wasted by them chasing targets set by the government. If the police put as much effort into catching the real criminals, such as those shown on the programme, as they do the motorist, this country would be a safer place to live.
Bill, Great Dunmow
From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/424...

Where would the world be without Bottom Inspectors?

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
The Scottish police have always been famed for their target driven policing. Perhaps why they have such a famous reputation for poor service compared to most other areas.

glasgowrob

3,232 posts

120 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
I do a fair bit of work with one of the larger taxi drivers associations and the feedback I've had off our members certainly paints a picture of target chasing.


FPNs are being handed out like confetti for even trivial matters that in years gone by would have been met with a bit of advice or a friendly chat.


Police Scotland seems to be going out their way to alienate themselves from the public. yes there is such a thing as the law, but there is also that thing called common sense and a bit of discretion

bobthebench

398 posts

262 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
There are no targets, yet apparently "justice partners" i.e. me, can be told to expect a 40% increase in fixed penalties being issued in the year ahead, so 40% more being disputed and coming to court. It's all semantics, no targets, but there are expectations which nobody will go public about. Incidentally these targets/norms/expectations are not government set, but an operational decision.

Officers at the roadside do still have discretion, but are afraid to use it. I see it with the number of people they stop for speeding. Speeder then explains en route to hospital for a perceived emergency, and police escort them to hospital on a blue light run. Then, whilst passenger is being treated, accused is charged with speeding in the hope that PF will later put a pen through it. Sorry BiB but grow a pair. You cannot claim credit from the Inspector for issuing the ticket then rely on someone else to do the decent thing and mark it no proceedings.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
This is not policing. If they want to harvest, they need to employ farmers.

Bloody disgrace and incompetent policing.

Eclassy

1,201 posts

121 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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I have no problem with this. If the police know a specific area where there is large scale law breaking occurring, they should target that area.

In this situation, they are catching criminals who have committed crimes. We all know people who dont notify the authorities of their current address are usually involved in otber type of criminal activities.

I am happy the police are doing their job and I'll sleep well at night safe in the knowledge that the police have prevented yet another delivery of groceries from Ocado to the wrong address.

ED209

5,740 posts

243 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
glasgowrob said:
I do a fair bit of work with one of the larger taxi drivers associations and the feedback I've had off our members certainly paints a picture of target chasing.


FPNs are being handed out like confetti for even trivial matters that in years gone by would have been met with a bit of advice or a friendly chat.


Police Scotland seems to be going out their way to alienate themselves from the public. yes there is such a thing as the law, but there is also that thing called common sense and a bit of discretion
My experience is the total opposite, generally taxi drivers get left alone. Getting away with stuff non taxi drivers would done for all the time.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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ED209 said:
My experience is the total opposite, generally taxi drivers get left alone. Getting away with stuff non taxi drivers would done for all the time.
Policing without, fear, favour or prejudice?

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Eclassy said:
I have no problem with this. If the police know a specific area where there is large scale law breaking occurring, they should target that area.

In this situation, they are catching criminals who have committed crimes. We all know people who dont notify the authorities of their current address are usually involved in otber type of criminal activities.

I am happy the police are doing their job and I'll sleep well at night safe in the knowledge that the police have prevented yet another delivery of groceries from Ocado to the wrong address.
You're talking about targeting.

I'm talking about targets, as in thou shalt issue eleventy speeding tickets every day, or thine hide shall be tanned with vigour...

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
It is hardly unique to policing.

In my day school examinations were there to test pupils. All of a sudden they were used to test the teachers and things then collapsed.

The idea of police targets is to test, and to limit, police forces. The results could be used to prove how efficient the government is, or, in other circumstances, a stick to beat the police and to deflect blame.


carinaman

21,224 posts

171 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
If the story is correct and the police are routinely stopping people that have moved to a new estate and asking to see if the address on their licences is correct. perhaps some of that could have been negated if a group of police cadets, or Specials and/or the local PCSO (do they have them in Scotland?) could do a leaflet campaign, knocking on doors saying 'Don't forget to get your drivers licence renewed with your new address, otherwise you risk getting a large fine'.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
The idea of police targets is to test, and to limit, police forces. The results could be used to prove how efficient the government is, or, in other circumstances, a stick to beat the police and to deflect blame.
According to bobthebench, these targets are an 'operational decision'; I understand this to mean self-imposed.

I appreciate your enthusiasm to blame politicians but this is purely an in-house cock-up by police in Scotland.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 21st April 2014
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Rovinghawk said:
According to bobthebench, these targets are an 'operational decision'; I understand this to mean self-imposed.

I appreciate your enthusiasm to blame politicians but this is purely an in-house cock-up by police in Scotland.
Are the police not told what to do by politicians ??, Most civil servants are, however crass the decisions of soundbite politics are frown

carinaman

21,224 posts

171 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
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'It was their choice to move and not update the addresses on their driving licences. That will be £1,000 please. Next'

TheJimi

24,864 posts

242 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
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Chief Inspector Simon Bradshaw said:
Chief Inspector Simon Bradshaw, of the Road Policing Unit at Police Scotland, said: "Road safety is one of the top priorities set by local communities to keep people safe. People consistently tell us that road safety issues concern them.

"Since the creation of Police Scotland and because of this priority set by local people there has been increased activity and enforcement of road traffic offences.

"Police Scotland has not and does not target drivers living on new housing estates. There are no targets, and there have never been, for road policing officers in Police Scotland. We seek to influence road-user behaviour and work to keep people safe."
So, wtf has an address on a bit of paper got to do with road safety?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
TheJimi said:
Chief Inspector Simon Bradshaw said:
Chief Inspector Simon Bradshaw, of the Road Policing Unit at Police Scotland, said: "Road safety is one of the top priorities set by local communities to keep people safe. People consistently tell us that road safety issues concern them.

"Since the creation of Police Scotland and because of this priority set by local people there has been increased activity and enforcement of road traffic offences.

"Police Scotland has not and does not target drivers living on new housing estates. There are no targets, and there have never been, for road policing officers in Police Scotland. We seek to influence road-user behaviour and work to keep people safe."
So, wtf has an address on a bit of paper got to do with road safety?
Hasn't he just de-linked the two?

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
La Liga said:
Hasn't he just de-linked the two?
AISI he's just stated that the targeting of housing estates for 'administration' offences has nothing to do with road safety.

My presumption is that it's to do with targets & monetary gain for the treasury, despite his denial that targets exist.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Tuesday 22nd April 2014
quotequote all
carinaman said:
If the story is correct and the police are routinely stopping people that have moved to a new estate and asking to see if the address on their licences is correct. perhaps some of that could have been negated if a group of police cadets, or Specials and/or the local PCSO (do they have them in Scotland?) could do a leaflet campaign, knocking on doors saying 'Don't forget to get your drivers licence renewed with your new address, otherwise you risk getting a large fine'.
I would agree that warnings should, perhaps, have been given out initially. Specials are too valuable a resource to be used as mere reminders.

It is a difficult offence to get down if the person decides to fight it. I've lost a few road traffic cases in my time but two stick in mind. One was a chap who was, quite obviously, living in London, in a flat in the Barbican to be precise, but had an address the north of England on his licence. I forget where, probably even more north than Norwich. His claim was that he 'lived' at both addresses.

Another reckoned that he was in 'temporary' accommodation and that he was looking for a house to buy and had merely rented the house he gave as an address.

Both explanations were accepted by the court.

I also reported a Page 3 woman for giving a false name and address after an RTA. Her explanation, entirely uncoached by her brief of course, was that she was concerned that the other driver might give her address to others so she had given her mother's address, and that the name she gave was a stage name. This was neither her proper name nor her Page 3 name, but one she had prepared earlier.

Her defence for the first bit included the fact that she had responded to all official documents sent to that address and promptly and for the second, she could call herself what she damned well liked. This was sent for advice and came back as NFA on both.

A small point is that when I went to her address to report her, her boyfriend was there and whilst I was interviewing her he was cutting his toenails whilst in a dressing gown of minute proportions.

As an aside, it seems you can call yourself any name you wish and use it on documentation. There are one or two limitations, but these are hardly day-to-day. That said, Julian Clary got threatened when he called himself The Joan Collins Fan Club.