European Coach accident

[Chrisgr31]

fatboy18 said:

I have other pics but they show the number plate of the coach and I have not mentioned the company name. I have Googled the company history and found a few other horror stories.
Needless to say I will not be using them again!

Edited by fatboy18 on Monday 21st April 20:50

Even if my family or I had been on the coach I would still have been fairly relaxed about the issue. Accidents are by definition accidents and caused usually by someone making a mistake. Now if the coac company was taking the michael on driving hours etc then one might have a valid complaint but the driver wouldnt have hit the concrete on purpose and the suspicion must be he lost concentration.

I would also be careful about googling for incidents involving the coach company. After all the first thing you have to know is how many coaches a company has, its almost guaranteed that a company with 100 coaches will have more incidents than one with one coach. Also people will always be quicker to criticisie than they are to commend, and once a company has one incident especially if it is high profile its likely to bring all the net warriors out the woodwork, whereas another company has had more incidents but they have not made the net.

[fatboy18]

Valid Point

[StuntmanMike]

I cross the channel weekly, I often see coach drivers having dinner and I have to say they come across as a pretty professional lot, occasionally they will gripe about someone, the impression I get is a reputable company will not give cowboys a second chance.

[ViperDave]

Chrisgr31 said:

fatboy18 said:

I have other pics but they show the number plate of the coach and I have not mentioned the company name. I have Googled the company history and found a few other horror stories.
Needless to say I will not be using them again!

Edited by fatboy18 on Monday 21st April 20:50

Even if my family or I had been on the coach I would still have been fairly relaxed about the issue. Accidents are by definition accidents and caused usually by someone making a mistake. Now if the coac company was taking the michael on driving hours etc then one might have a valid complaint but the driver wouldnt have hit the concrete on purpose and the suspicion must be he lost concentration.

I would also be careful about googling for incidents involving the coach company. After all the first thing you have to know is how many coaches a company has, its almost guaranteed that a company with 100 coaches will have more incidents than one with one coach. Also people will always be quicker to criticisie than they are to commend, and once a company has one incident especially if it is high profile its likely to bring all the net warriors out the woodwork, whereas another company has had more incidents but they have not made the net.

But I'm not sure accidents are acceptable on public transport. Its one thing if they are caused by a third party (MOP) doing something dumb a coach driver couldn't have foreseen, or even another coach driver pushing the concrete barrier into their lane previously, but things like losing concentration, falling asleep, lack of maintenance are not acceptable in the air, on the rails so why is it OK on the road providing no one was hurt or killed.

I had considered mark could report them to the HSE but it looks as if it wouldn't be in their remit, VOSA and DVLA seem to now be DVSA but there doesn't seem to be a way (that i have found so far) to report un-safe operations, which only leaves the police who probably don't care as no one was hurt.

As for the damage to the bus, fiberglass and plastic can hide very serious damage behind, as it bends or breaks but can return to near its original position whilst the structural frame behind is seriously damaged. I know this as my car was written off with major crushing of the crumple zones in the chassis despite the plastic bumper looking like it just needed a bit of t-cut.

[BritishRacinGrin]

berlintaxi said:

"Ploughs" into concrete and that's the damage, must have been at walking pace.

This. The OP was 'half asleep' at the time by his own admission.

[TroubledSoul]

Not sure why people seem determined to get on the OP's back about this?

Seems that there's always somebody waiting for an opportunity to have a pop on here.

[berlintaxi]

TroubledSoul said:

Not sure why people seem determined to get on the OP's back about this?

Seems that there's always somebody waiting for an opportunity to have a pop on here.

Nobody having a pop, just surprised by the levels of damage and the tale of "ploughing" into concrete at 68mph/110kmh, drivers I have seem to do more damage tapping a truck in the yard.

[fatboy18]

berlintaxi said:

TroubledSoul said:

Not sure why people seem determined to get on the OP's back about this?

Seems that there's always somebody waiting for an opportunity to have a pop on here.

Nobody having a pop, just surprised by the levels of damage and the tale of "ploughing" into concrete at 68mph/110kmh, drivers I have seem to do more damage tapping a truck in the yard.

I was sitting in the BACK seat, I could not see the drivers speedo, The Overhead signs on the motorway showed a reduced speed of 110kph, I also said the driver did not seem to be speeding. He did not hit the concrete barriers Head on, The barrier he first hit was at a 45 degree angle with the coach then riding the next barrier pushing it into the oncoming traffic. If the Driver had been more awake he would have bloody seen what he was about to hit. he did not swerve prior to hitting the thing which is why I used the term Ploughed into it. He did well to control the coach after the impact, but to then stop and walk back without even putting the Hazard's on at 10 to 6 in the morning was rather worrying.

Edited by fatboy18 on Tuesday 22 April 21:44

[fatboy18]

ViperDave said:

Chrisgr31 said:

fatboy18 said:

I have other pics but they show the number plate of the coach and I have not mentioned the company name. I have Googled the company history and found a few other horror stories.
Needless to say I will not be using them again!

Edited by fatboy18 on Monday 21st April 20:50

Even if my family or I had been on the coach I would still have been fairly relaxed about the issue. Accidents are by definition accidents and caused usually by someone making a mistake. Now if the coac company was taking the michael on driving hours etc then one might have a valid complaint but the driver wouldnt have hit the concrete on purpose and the suspicion must be he lost concentration.

I would also be careful about googling for incidents involving the coach company. After all the first thing you have to know is how many coaches a company has, its almost guaranteed that a company with 100 coaches will have more incidents than one with one coach. Also people will always be quicker to criticisie than they are to commend, and once a company has one incident especially if it is high profile its likely to bring all the net warriors out the woodwork, whereas another company has had more incidents but they have not made the net.

But I'm not sure accidents are acceptable on public transport. Its one thing if they are caused by a third party (MOP) doing something dumb a coach driver couldn't have foreseen, or even another coach driver pushing the concrete barrier into their lane previously, but things like losing concentration, falling asleep, lack of maintenance are not acceptable in the air, on the rails so why is it OK on the road providing no one was hurt or killed.

I had considered mark could report them to the HSE but it looks as if it wouldn't be in their remit, VOSA and DVLA seem to now be DVSA but there doesn't seem to be a way (that i have found so far) to report un-safe operations, which only leaves the police who probably don't care as no one was hurt.

As for the damage to the bus, fiberglass and plastic can hide very serious damage behind, as it bends or breaks but can return to near its original position whilst the structural frame behind is seriously damaged. I know this as my car was written off with major crushing of the crumple zones in the chassis despite the plastic bumper looking like it just needed a bit of t-cut.

Thanks Dave, Good to see someone sees the point in the post.

[ViperDave]

fatboy18 said:

hanks Dave, Good to see someone sees the point in the post.

well i was starting to think everyone on here was a member of BRAKE, with the attitude, Driver wasn't speeding, no children killed, must be safe.

[SV8Predator]

fatboy18 said:

was sitting in the BACK seat, I could not see the drivers taco,

And he was eating at the wheel? No wonder you're upset.

Was it the smell of the taco that woke you up?

[fatboy18]

SV8Predator said:

fatboy18 said:

was sitting in the BACK seat, I could not see the drivers taco,

And he was eating at the wheel? No wonder you're upset.

Was it the smell of the taco that woke you up?

Bloody spell check

[GC8]

I find the OPs determination to ensure that the driver lost his job to be particularly weasel-like. You should take a long hard look at yourself.

[MrCJN]

"But I'm not sure accidents are acceptable on public transport. Its one thing if they are caused by a third party (MOP) doing something dumb a coach driver couldn't have foreseen, or even another coach driver pushing the concrete barrier into their lane previously, but things like losing concentration, falling asleep, lack of maintenance are not acceptable in the air, on the rails so why is it OK on the road providing no one was hurt or killed.

I had considered mark could report them to the HSE but it looks as if it wouldn't be in their remit, VOSA and DVLA seem to now be DVSA but there doesn't seem to be a way (that i have found so far) to report un-safe operations, which only leaves the police who probably don't care as no one was hurt.

As for the damage to the bus, fiberglass and plastic can hide very serious damage behind, as it bends or breaks but can return to near its original position whilst the structural frame behind is seriously damaged. I know this as my car was written off with major crushing of the crumple zones in the chassis despite the
plastic bumper looking like it just needed a bit of t-cut"



LOOK!! You. This particular comment has really got my goat as a coach driver I'll lay it down. Anybody STUPID enough to allow travel OVERNIGHT travel needs to gets to real It is dangerous, of course it is, by it's very nature overnight driving is risky. Ski companies - I assume this is a ski operator - love overnight travel and it is very common but also very frowned upon practice that DRIVERS NOR OPERATORS like, but coach operators need all the work they can get - when was the last time you charged less than you did 5 YEARS AGO in your industry?? Ski companies pay so poorly that in reality the driver will take home more money than the boss earns net on a single trip. That's how bad it is.

Drivers - almost certainly working for £8.50 or less are driving in the dark, often sleepy because WHO WOULDNT BE - staring at a bland European motorway is not concurrent with a being alert is it!? On arrival at the resort they'll have to SHARE a room; two adult men sharing a room, in a hotel with people who don't give a toss about them, and who will expect them to drive them back to the UK fully alert having kept them up for nights on end with parting. Think about that.

The operator you travelled with is a respected company, and coach drivers are far more highly trained than you'd imagine with the introduction of DCPC for all drivers, requiring them to take 35hrs of training every 5 years (doesn't sound like much, but trust me it's boring as hell and it feels ALOT!) all for a poxy £8ph or something like that. Stagecoach drivers earn MUCH MORE. So I feel the OP's comments about this company are unfair.

As for this comment more directly. HSE, DVSA...what the hell are you on about?? ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. Of course they do. The likelihood of a coach accident is minuscule. UNSAFE OPERATIONS. Driving overnight is fully legal...not clever by any margin as I've said, but you pay your money, you take the risk. Thousands of coaches make overnight European trips, accident numbers...your more likely to see sun in June (Hmm!). Why should one driver be a wake whilst one is driving? Suddenly leaping onto the driver "Oh st watch out"...can have equally dangerous consequences. If he's to take the help in a couple of hours you want him to be rested surely. These drives can be 20hrs or so...think before you type.

These types of incidents might not be acceptable, but to be honest, I find your high and mighty comments equally unacceptable. What do you know about the coach industry...another keyboard expert as per. And if you think pilots don't fall asleep on long haul trips at the helm your mistaken...

And with reference to the damage to the bus. Have you any idea how strong these coaches are? Your pathetic Focus or Celia or whatever is nothing compared to these monsters. That's a minor graze at very best, a £2500 windscreen, a few hundred in new panels and some lights and it can be repaired in 2 days. Chassis damage? A coach needs to be OBLITERATED to suffer that type of damage, almost certainly every coach you see crashed is back on the road tested and road legal. The bus that crashed in France two/three years ago killing that teacher. Repaired. The coach that crashed a few years ago on way back from Blackpool. Repaired. Those coaches weight a good 16tonne unlaiden.

To dismiss the driver is unfair, it's creating a scape goat because somebodies head must roll...must it. Nobody is happy unless somebody suffers.

I do praise the OP for not going down the whip lash etc, because you would have had none. You might have felt a slight bump, but barely enough to knock Pepsi over.

I normally wouldn't write huge comments like this, but I think you guys should just see it from a "professionals" point of view.

IF YOUR THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT DOESNT LIKE THE RISK OF DRIVING OVERNIGHT IN FOR EG EUROPE WITH YOUR KIDS ON THEIR TRIPS MAYBE YOU SHOULD LOOK AT B.U.S.K A SAFETY COMPAIGN GROUP WHO WORK WITH SCHOOLS/OPERATORS/GOVT TO REMOVE THE DANGEROUS PRACTISE OF SHARING ROOMS, LONG OVERNIGHT TRIPS. BUT THEIR IS A FINANCIAL PENALITY. AND WHO WANTS TO PAY FOR SAFETY, EH!

Edited by MrCJN on Wednesday 23 April 01:19

[fatboy18]

GC8 said:

I find the OPs determination to ensure that the driver lost his job to be particularly weasel-like. You should take a long hard look at yourself.

WOW!

For the record mate I did not sack the driver the company did, apparently his attitude to the event did not help him with the Boss, he had also damaged the rear of the coach earlier in the season!

There are many of these overnight companies driving young school children and students to Ski resorts, I think it is you who should sit back and think for a moment.

Weasel-like? Mate do you think it was right for the Driver to carry on to resort without stopping to report what had happened?
Do you think it was right that he did not stop at the next SOS phone or service station and inspect the damage under proper light?
I have tried to give an account of what happened.
I am trying to find out what the industry procedures are in such an event, nothing more?
Was I happy with the Driver....NO, did he deserve to loose his job? In my opinion YES, Not because of the Accident but because of his conduct before and after the event.

[limpsfield]

ViperDave said:

But I'm not sure accidents are acceptable on public transport.

But they are accidents. Not deliberate. We are always going to have accidents. I am not quite sure what we can do to stop these accidents.

[fatboy18]

Hello MrCJN
Thank you for your post, its interesting to hear from a Driver in the industry.

You make some strong statements there.
'Anybody STUPID enough to allow travel OVERNIGHT travel needs to gets to real It is dangerous'

If this is the case, it seems your industry is in need a serious shake up?
As I said in my previous post there are, as you know, many companies that transport students and school children to Ski Resorts. Your comments raise some serious concerns!

Bit confused by this statement,
'The operator you travelled with is a respected company'
Er....I have not named the company (PH Rules)

'You might have felt a slight bump, but barely enough to knock Pepsi over'
It was a bit more than that, as after the coach came down off the concrete barrier the driver did well to stop the coach swerving side to side!

Accidents happen, I fully accept that, but what I did not accept was the indifference the driver showed to the incident, the failure to stop at the next service station to inspect the damage under light and that he did not report the accident to the local authorities as a Public carrier.

Barriers had been moved, wreckage was on the carriageway. Failure to put on Hazzard lights.

For the record the two drivers we had for the return trip were very professional in their attitude representing the company and the DRIVING was very good. We returned the UK on the same coach, the Windscreen had still not been replaced (a week later,with several cracks across it) the light cluster had been replaced and supporting brackets for bumper parts had been pulled out.

[ViperDave]

viperdave said:

"But I'm not sure accidents are acceptable on public transport. Its one thing if they are caused by a third party (MOP) doing something dumb a coach driver couldn't have foreseen, or even another coach driver pushing the concrete barrier into their lane previously, but things like losing concentration, falling asleep, lack of maintenance are not acceptable in the air, on the rails so why is it OK on the road providing no one was hurt or killed.

I had considered mark could report them to the HSE but it looks as if it wouldn't be in their remit, VOSA and DVLA seem to now be DVSA but there doesn't seem to be a way (that i have found so far) to report un-safe operations, which only leaves the police who probably don't care as no one was hurt.

As for the damage to the bus, fiberglass and plastic can hide very serious damage behind, as it bends or breaks but can return to near its original position whilst the structural frame behind is seriously damaged. I know this as my car was written off with major crushing of the crumple zones in the chassis despite the
plastic bumper looking like it just needed a bit of t-cut"

MrCJN said:

LOOK!! You. This particular comment has really got my goat as a coach driver I'll lay it down.

Well as you have done the internet equivalent of grabbing me by my collar and dragging me into the car park to have it out,

MrCJN said:

Anybody STUPID enough to allow travel OVERNIGHT travel needs to gets to real It is dangerous, of course it is, by it's very nature overnight driving is risky. Ski companies - I assume this is a ski operator - love overnight travel and it is very common but also very frowned upon practice that DRIVERS NOR OPERATORS like, but coach operators need all the work they can get - when was the last time you charged less than you did 5 YEARS AGO in your industry?? Ski companies pay so poorly that in reality the driver will take home more money than the boss earns net on a single trip. That's how bad it is.

Drivers - almost certainly working for £8.50 or less are driving in the dark, often sleepy because WHO WOULDNT BE - staring at a bland European motorway is not concurrent with a being alert is it!? On arrival at the resort they'll have to SHARE a room; two adult men sharing a room, in a hotel with people who don't give a toss about them, and who will expect them to drive them back to the UK fully alert having kept them up for nights on end with parting. Think about that.

The operator you travelled with is a respected company, and coach drivers are far more highly trained than you'd imagine with the introduction of DCPC for all drivers, requiring them to take 35hrs of training every 5 years (doesn't sound like much, but trust me it's boring as hell and it feels ALOT!) all for a poxy £8ph or something like that. Stagecoach drivers earn MUCH MORE. So I feel the OP's comments about this company are unfair.

So now you have dragged my industry into it, No i couldn't sell my product for less in 5 years time, the reason for that is that it would be obsolete in less than that and no one would buy it, so if you think 35 hours of training every 5 years is bad, try working in an industry where if your not constantly learning and evolving you will be obsolete along with your specialist knowledge, many weeks of training and certification costing many £1000's, in less then the 5 year time frame you have given, but I'm not really interested in getting into a pissing match about who has the sttyest job.

MrCJN said:

As for this comment more directly. HSE, DVSA...what the hell are you on about?? ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. Of course they do. The likelihood of a coach accident is minuscule. UNSAFE OPERATIONS. Driving overnight is fully legal...not clever by any margin as I've said, but you pay your money, you take the risk. Thousands of coaches make overnight European trips, accident numbers...your more likely to see sun in June (Hmm!). Why should one driver be a wake whilst one is driving? Suddenly leaping onto the driver "Oh st watch out"...can have equally dangerous consequences. If he's to take the help in a couple of hours you want him to be rested surely. These drives can be 20hrs or so...think before you type.

These types of incidents might not be acceptable, but to be honest, I find your high and mighty comments equally unacceptable. What do you know about the coach industry...another keyboard expert as per. And if you think pilots don't fall asleep on long haul trips at the helm your mistaken...

HSE and DVSA were mentioned in response to the OP's request for info on who is in authority to investigate accidents on coach transport, and what are the correct procedures so that he can be sure this company hasn't just brushed it under the carpet and not followed correct reporting. Perhaps as a coach driver you can help him out in that regard, as you are right, i am no expert, but have never claimed to be. But in many industry's even the chance of injury is investigated by a governing authority, they may find that acceptable procedures are in place and were being followed and it really was an accident out of their control, or they may take other action either to bring this one company inline with the regulations or even change those regulations industry wide to stop drivers carrying on driving when they feel they are no longer alert enough to carry on.

You may be right that pilots may drop off at the stick, But I'm pretty sure if its reported the CAA will investigate, and I'm damn sure when one turns up at the destination with damage to the aircraft the CAA and AAIB will get involved.

You seem to have highlighted the words unsafe operations, well perhaps you could explain what is safe about driving into a concrete barrier, stopping on an active carriageway, not using hazard lights or high vis jacket, and continuing on the journey without reporting damage to the road to the police or checking if the vehicle is roadworthy in a safe and lit environment.

Not sure where i said there should be another alert driver ready to grab the wheel or shout at the driver, perhaps you could highlight where i did.

MrCJN said:

And with reference to the damage to the bus. Have you any idea how strong these coaches are? Your pathetic Focus or Celia or whatever is nothing compared to these monsters. That's a minor graze at very best, a £2500 windscreen, a few hundred in new panels and some lights and it can be repaired in 2 days. Chassis damage? A coach needs to be OBLITERATED to suffer that type of damage, almost certainly every coach you see crashed is back on the road tested and road legal. The bus that crashed in France two/three years ago killing that teacher. Repaired. The coach that crashed a few years ago on way back from Blackpool. Repaired. Those coaches weight a good 16tonne unlaiden.

My point was that the plastic and fiberglass damage doesn't necessarily reflect the damage behind as it bends and returns to form with either no damage or minor cracking, that doesn't mean there isn't steel damage behind. The reference to my written off Camaro was not to say the coach would be written off, just that damage to the frame can occur behind minor/undamaged plastic, The bumper support needed to be pulled to straighten them, so i would say it was more than a graze. Obviously it would take more to write off a valuable coach than it would my "pathetic" car.

MrCJN said:

To dismiss the driver is unfair, it's creating a scape goat because somebodies head must roll...must it. Nobody is happy unless somebody suffers.

At no point have i called for the driver to be sacked.

MrCJN said:

I do praise the OP for not going down the whip lash etc, because you would have had none. You might have felt a slight bump, but barely enough to knock Pepsi over.

How do you know that, were you the driver, do you own the company, were you on the coach?

MrCJN said:

I normally wouldn't write huge comments like this, but I think you guys should just see it from a "professionals" point of view.


IF YOUR THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT DOESNT LIKE THE RISK OF DRIVING OVERNIGHT IN FOR EG EUROPE WITH YOUR KIDS ON THEIR TRIPS MAYBE YOU SHOULD LOOK AT B.U.S.K A SAFETY COMPAIGN GROUP WHO WORK WITH SCHOOLS/OPERATORS/GOVT TO REMOVE THE DANGEROUS PRACTISE OF SHARING ROOMS, LONG OVERNIGHT TRIPS. BUT THEIR IS A FINANCIAL PENALITY. AND WHO WANTS TO PAY FOR SAFETY, EH!

Edited by MrCJN on Wednesday 23 April 01:19

You sound like the "type" of "professional" who doesn't want to see change for the better in your industry. yet you seem to acknowledge that the currant practices are dangerous. So I am just confused. Maybe next time take a breath, re-read the comments, try shouting less, and defiantly don't start with "LOOK You!!"

Edited by ViperDave on Wednesday 23 April 11:04

[ViperDave]

limpsfield said:

ViperDave said:

But I'm not sure accidents are acceptable on public transport.

But they are accidents. Not deliberate. We are always going to have accidents. I am not quite sure what we can do to stop these accidents.

But were they avoidable? Accidents should be caused by unforeseen events, not lack of maintenance, or bad driving practices by the industry. Yes we are going to have accidents, I'm not someone who thinks road deaths can and should be reduced to nil at any cost as i don't think it would be possible. But if i am doing a long drive and start to feel tired i will either stop or get someone to take over the driving. and that is with just me and my SO in the car, not 40+ members of the public. So i don't feel it is appropriate that an industry for transporting the public should operate in a way that puts drivers behind the wheel where they feel pressured to continue on when they know they should stop. If over night travel is difficult then the regulations should shorten driving hours over night or ensure that there is the possibility for drivers to swap when tired, not when their hours are up.

Chances are this driver knew he was dangerously tired before he hit the concrete. But probably also knew he would loose his job if he stopped. Ironically he has now been sacked for the accident ever though he is probably a better driver for it after the wake-up (literally) of what was nearly a serious accident, although as Fatboy18 says it was as much his attitude after the crash as the crash itself, so maybe not.

[MrCJN]

I was being very friendly in that post. I normally am quite nice but I take exception to people who have no idea the pressure we are under day in day out, and you might think that's rubbish, Oh we "Just sit there and eat donoughts" that's is not the case.

THE only reason HSE should be brought in to make people put their own fking luggage in the hold. Its accepted as a drivers job but dragging around ridiculously lifting heavy cases is seriously bad for ones health - thought I'd throw that in there..

Ok I'll try and answer these questions a bit more rationally now it's 11am in the morning...

STOPPING AFTER ACCIDENT - Obviously this was poorly managed, and if space permitting everybody should have been brought to front of the coach and/or removed whilst he went to inspect the damage. I am in no doubt he fell asleep (or at nearly did) the shock involved would have sent his head spinning; what's more of an immediate worry, putting hazards on for safety (which I don't deny he should have done, and somebody YOU even? should have contacted somebody to get debris seen to) or worrying about the fact he could potentially lose his job. I would say that if an incident happens like this, the French police get involved it all becomes very messy and I can see why he thought...'Escape..'. His customer care skills were negligent; always check your herd. Whether the driver should have lost his job over the incident - I'm not blaming you -I think thats an easy get out

DANGEROUS OF OVERNIGHT TRAVEL - Yes!! It does. Nobody likes these jobs, and the question is whether parents and travellers would be willing to add £100/£200 to a trip to the Alps (and add 4 days) in order to travel in daylight? Most drivers are paid per hour, and the alternative is airport transfers because the one advantage of coach travel is price. What's better for the driver & operator? Its a weight up; safety or money.

THE OPERATOR is known to me and most drivers will recognise the cream livery, I can even tell pretty much which coach it is just from the corner. Sad. You guys can probably do the same with cars (as can I). I cracked screen is a prohibitable offence, don't know why they sent it out hundreds of miles with that, that's not on. Cant remember if you said the coach went back to England; finding a replacement screen in Italy or France or wherever is very difficult.

Viper; I will draw my claws back a bit now. I'm not bothered about your job; each to their own.There is nobody you can directly complain to apart from the operator as the actual activity is legal and accidents happen. I suppose the OP could complain to a Traffic Commissioner (CAA equivalent, basically the god in transport industry) but as he wouldn't have done it on purpose it's not really something they'll take note of. If it occurred because the driver hadn't had his appropriate rest break the day before then they would be interested as that's a deliberate act of negligence but that's supposition.

All things considered the damage is quite light, could have been worse of course. Your cocooned in so much metal a whiplash injury would require substantially more than that to obtain.

I would love to see change, we need change. But there are consequences on both sides and nobody wants to end up out of pocket. All comes down to money sad as that is.

Edited by MrCJN on Wednesday 23 April 11:43

Edited by MrCJN on Wednesday 23 April 11:47