arrested for DD last night, refused to give sample

[LaurasOtherHalf]

i'll try & keep this as short as possible until i know further details but he's the sorry saga, or as much as i know of it so far....

family friend out with another friend yesterday afternoon & consumed alcohol (no idea how little or how much).

for whatever reason, she decided to drive home (perhaps 30 miles or so?)

apparently, her car registration was reported to the police, either for erratic driving or leaving a pub after being seen drinking.

after arriving home, she consumed more alcohol.

now, at some point in the evening, police arrive to question her. now, all this at present is a bit "second hand" information, but apparently she got a bit "tired & emotional" & couldn't provide a breath sample-after a lot of goes it would seem.

at which point, the police arrested her & placed her in custody for the night, only to be released at some point today.

any ideas if this is something she can fight in court (if indeed, there might be any chance that she could possibly have been under the limit at the time of driving)? i assumed that refusing to give a sample is a straight ban with do not pass go, if this is the case-what sort of punishment should she expect?

i hasten to add, this is not me who's in this predicament! i've no idea just why she was so stupid as to find herself in this situation but her close family are obviously worried about just how severe the punishment for her stupidity will be.

personal circumstances of the lady in question are someone in good health who is retired so obviously does not need a license for work etc.

[POORCARDEALER]

Good lawyer would get her off with it I would think (not condoning her actions BTW)

[dudleybloke]

and if she doesnt get off i think pensioners still get free bus passes.

[Eclassy]

This doesnt help but the question you should be asking her is why she let anyone in her house.

Say I used to drink with a neighbour/ friend every Friday night at home from around 8pm. I drive home from work and arrive at 7pm every weekday. I have now fallen out with this neighbour/friend. What stops this disgruntled neighbour/friend from calling up the police and saying I drove under the influence.

If the police turn up at 10pm and I foolishly let them in and I blow over the limit. How do they determine when I got drunk?

[Pothole]

Large holes in the story, mostly compounding the woman's initial stupidity.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Eclassy said:

This doesnt help but the question you should be asking her is why she let anyone in her house.

Say I used to drink with a neighbour/ friend every Friday night at home from around 8pm. I drive home from work and arrive at 7pm every weekday. I have now fallen out with this neighbour/friend. What stops this disgruntled neighbour/friend from calling up the police and saying I drove under the influence.

If the police turn up at 10pm and I foolishly let them in and I blow over the limit. How do they determine when I got drunk?

this is a good point but one not entirely helpful after the fact unfortunately. i suspect that usually law abiding citizens don't suddenly turn into "know my rights!" types when confronted by plod & merely st themselves instead, no bad thing when you think about it.

so, a little more information has come through in that she has been charged with;

failing to provide a specimen
driving a motor vehicle dangerously

as i find out more i'll post up...

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Pothole said:

Large holes in the story, mostly compounding the woman's initial stupidity.

the stupidity of her actions are not in doubt, until i fill in some of the holes in the story i can't offer more insight unfortunately.

[longshot]

How can they charge her with driving a motor vehicle dangerously if the Police didn't witness it.
Wouldn't it take a Policeman to decide what is dangerous, unless ofcourse she's driven into something.

[Pothole]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Pothole said:

Large holes in the story, mostly compounding the woman's initial stupidity.

the stupidity of her actions are not in doubt, until i fill in some of the holes in the story i can't offer more insight unfortunately.

pop back then, maybe? Preferably having spoken to the arresting officer so you've got some actual facts? Kind of a pointless thread so far.

[Mercury00]

This exact thing happened on Police Interceptors (or another police programme) the other night. The woman told the police that she'd only consumed the alcohol after she got home, so the police requested CCTV footage from the pub.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

longshot said:

How can they charge her with driving a motor vehicle dangerously if the Police didn't witness it.
Wouldn't it take a Policeman to decide what is dangerous, unless ofcourse she's driven into something.

presumably this is where a witness statement would come in? the witness that presumably reported her to the police initially?

what are the sentences for the above charges?

[anonymous-user]

It doesn't sound like driving standard offences are relevant from what you're saying i.e. driving without due care / dangerous driving.

If she consumed more alcohol after the driving then a sample and information will need to be sent to whichever forensic lab that force uses for back calculations.

[Dibble]

Eclassy said:

This doesnt help but the question you should be asking her is why she let anyone in her house.

Say I used to drink with a neighbour/ friend every Friday night at home from around 8pm. I drive home from work and arrive at 7pm every weekday. I have now fallen out with this neighbour/friend. What stops this disgruntled neighbour/friend from calling up the police and saying I drove under the influence.

If the police turn up at 10pm and I foolishly let them in and I blow over the limit. How do they determine when I got drunk?

In certain circumstances Police have a power of entry under RTA.

Back calculation can be used to determine breath/blood alcohol for the relevant time (be that over or under the limit). Google "hip flask defence". You can be interviewed about what you consumed and when as part of the process.

[longshot]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

longshot said:

How can they charge her with driving a motor vehicle dangerously if the Police didn't witness it.
Wouldn't it take a Policeman to decide what is dangerous, unless ofcourse she's driven into something.

presumably this is where a witness statement would come in? the witness that presumably reported her to the police initially?

what are the sentences for the above charges?

How long's a piece of string really.
Dangeous driving probably ranges from fine to prison depending on the severity.
DD will be a ban.

[POORCARDEALER]

If she answered the door clutching a glass of whisky but refused to answser any questions then surely it would be impossible to do any calculations....devils advocate mode

[sugerbear]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

now, at some point in the evening, police arrive to question her. now, all this at present is a bit "second hand" information, but apparently she got a bit "tired & emotional" & couldn't provide a breath sample-after a lot of goes it would seem.

Cow dung?

[Dibble]

POORCARDEALER said:

If she answered the door clutching a glass of whisky but refused to answser any questions then surely it would be impossible to do any calculations....devils advocate mode

Which could work against you... If you don't say "I've just had a whisky" you risk the assumption that you were over at the time.

[POORCARDEALER]

Dibble said:

POORCARDEALER said:

If she answered the door clutching a glass of whisky but refused to answser any questions then surely it would be impossible to do any calculations....devils advocate mode

Which could work against you... If you don't say "I've just had a whisky" you risk the assumption that you were over at the time.

If she has said ive drunk many drinks since I got home then case collapses?

[Pothole]

I'm finding it hard to understand why a female pensioner needed to be arrested and kept in a cell overnight over this.

[Aretnap]

POORCARDEALER said:

If she answered the door clutching a glass of whisky but refused to answser any questions then surely it would be impossible to do any calculations....devils advocate mode

That' would be the hip flask defence ("I had a wee nip after the acshident offisher, just to calm my nerves you know"). The burden of proof is effectively reversed and the onus is on the defendant to prove that he would not have been over the limit but for the alcohol he drank after getting out of the car. RTOA section 15(2) and (3).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/sectio...

In any event the OP's friend has been charged with failing to provide a sample, not drink driving, so whether she was actually drunk at the time she was driving isn't really relevant. The penalty is the same as for drink driving - minimum 12 month ban and a hefty fine or possibly a community order.