arrested for DD last night, refused to give sample
Discussion
POORCARDEALER said:
Dibble said:
POORCARDEALER said:
If she answered the door clutching a glass of whisky but refused to answser any questions then surely it would be impossible to do any calculations....devils advocate mode
Which could work against you... If you don't say "I've just had a whisky" you risk the assumption that you were over at the time. Dibble said:
In certain circumstances Police have a power of entry under RTA.
Back calculation can be used to determine breath/blood alcohol for the relevant time (be that over or under the limit). Google "hip flask defence". You can be interviewed about what you consumed and when as part of the process.
Not police but I am not sure if this is one of the scenarios where plod can enter under RTA. I'd imagine it will be situations where maybe a driver doesnt obey a lawful order to stop, drives home, parks up and runs inside, locking the door behind him/her.Back calculation can be used to determine breath/blood alcohol for the relevant time (be that over or under the limit). Google "hip flask defence". You can be interviewed about what you consumed and when as part of the process.
I would be interested to hear the outcome of this case. Unless the woman has sang like a canary and implicated herself, it would be interesting to know how she can be charged for "failing to provide a sample" in her own home.
Dibble said:
Which could work against you... If you don't say "I've just had a whisky" you risk the assumption that you were over at the time.
No it wont. You do not have to say a thing to plod except maybe provide your name and address (on the roadside) and no inference can be drawn from that.Inferences can be drawn if you fail to answer questions under caution with or without legal representation.
If she's failed to provide the evidential sample, it probably won't make much difference anyway.
Pothole said:
I'm finding it hard to understand why a female pensioner needed to be arrested and kept in a cell overnight over this.
What difference does the gender make? POORCARDEALER said:
If she answered the door clutching a glass of whisky but refused to answser any questions then surely it would be impossible to do any calculations....devils advocate mode
No it wouldn't. Eclassy said:
it would be interesting to know how she can be charged for "failing to provide a sample" in her own home.
Why would it be any more interesting than anywhere else? If a sample is lawfully requested, then it's lawfully requested. La Liga said:
If she's failed to provide the evidential sample, it probably won't make much difference anyway.
often quite a lot. I'm still finding it hard to understand.Pothole said:
I'm finding it hard to understand why a female pensioner needed to be arrested and kept in a cell overnight over this.
What difference does the gender make? LaurasOtherHalf said:
longshot said:
How can they charge her with driving a motor vehicle dangerously if the Police didn't witness it.
Wouldn't it take a Policeman to decide what is dangerous, unless ofcourse she's driven into something.
presumably this is where a witness statement would come in? the witness that presumably reported her to the police initially?Wouldn't it take a Policeman to decide what is dangerous, unless ofcourse she's driven into something.
what are the sentences for the above charges?
Start with fine and 12 months ban, can be community service or prison. Both mean a criminal record.
Pothole said:
La Liga said:
If she's failed to provide the evidential sample, it probably won't make much difference anyway.
often quite a lot. I'm still finding it hard to understand.Pothole said:
I'm finding it hard to understand why a female pensioner needed to be arrested and kept in a cell overnight over this.
What difference does the gender make? Unless being woman in these circumstances means she can't drive again or doesn't need to be interviewed once the alcohol is out of her system.
Pothole said:
I'm finding it hard to understand why a female pensioner needed to be arrested and kept in a cell overnight over this.
To be interviewed when sober.This will obviously depend on how much alcohol she has in her body.And as you have next to no facts (as do I) regarding what has actually happened,reserve uninformed comments until then.La Liga said:
hy would it be any more interesting than anywhere else? If a sample is lawfully requested, then it's lawfully requested.
Can a sample be lawfully requested in your own home? It could be a lawful request if the police followed you home in a scenario like I described earlier where a person has not obeyed a lawful order to stop and drives home.But when the police are working with 3rd party information and arrive at someones home without a warrant, can the request to provide a sample be said to be lawful?
I remember a thread on here a while back from a guy who one afternoon, while sober, had a bike slide out him on a roundabout. After getting a lift home, heading out for dinner with drinks, the pub for a few more, then on to town till the early hours, the police turn up at ~4am to breathalyse him for the earlier accident.
I can't find the link now, but IIRC he had to get statements from the paramedics and people on scene to say he didn't appear drunk, friends, the landlord, cctv footage etc... Don't remember if I saw the outcome from that one.
I can't find the link now, but IIRC he had to get statements from the paramedics and people on scene to say he didn't appear drunk, friends, the landlord, cctv footage etc... Don't remember if I saw the outcome from that one.
Eclassy said:
Can a sample be lawfully requested in your own home?
It could be a lawful request if the police followed you home in a scenario like I described earlier where a person has not obeyed a lawful order to stop and drives home.
But when the police are working with 3rd party information and arrive at someones home without a warrant, can the request to provide a sample be said to be lawful?
It doesn't take too much searching to find the powers of entry.It could be a lawful request if the police followed you home in a scenario like I described earlier where a person has not obeyed a lawful order to stop and drives home.
But when the police are working with 3rd party information and arrive at someones home without a warrant, can the request to provide a sample be said to be lawful?
Trespassing becomes highly relevant if there's no power of entry and at which time the request is made to provide an entry.
Ok, more info comes in as I finish work....
I hasten to add yet again, this is still third hand info & these (& the previous) facts I have shared may not be 100% correct
The police came to visit around one hour after she returned home.
Two people reported her driving standards, one with video evidence of "swerving" & perhaps hitting a curb.
Police asked her to provide a sample, which she did but couldn't register a reading multiple times. After this, the breathalyser "failed" & was switched off to reset itself when once again it (or she) couldn't provide a reading.
Police then arrested her & put her in the cells for the evening until sober.
No urine or blood sample was offered or given, the police did not request one.
Upon questioning this morning, she admitted that although only having two glasses of wine prior to driving she was not aware of what size measures had been used.
She also admitted on reflection she shouldn't have driven although denied being drunk at the time of driving. I didn't find out how much she may have drunk after she returned home.
So there we have it, if there's anything any of the legal eagles would like me to find out I can always try. I've tried to keep to as much of the facts as possible, I don't think I've harmed any realistic defence she may have had by posting although I yet again add, this is second hand knowledge & may or may not contain some inaccuracies.
Obviously I'm very aware that there will be some very harsh criticisms of her behaviour on here (I'm less than impressed with her myself) & I sympathise with anyone who holds no regard for anyone involved in a drink driving case. However, these are the cards she has dealt herself & is obviously extremely worried about the charges.
I hasten to add yet again, this is still third hand info & these (& the previous) facts I have shared may not be 100% correct
The police came to visit around one hour after she returned home.
Two people reported her driving standards, one with video evidence of "swerving" & perhaps hitting a curb.
Police asked her to provide a sample, which she did but couldn't register a reading multiple times. After this, the breathalyser "failed" & was switched off to reset itself when once again it (or she) couldn't provide a reading.
Police then arrested her & put her in the cells for the evening until sober.
No urine or blood sample was offered or given, the police did not request one.
Upon questioning this morning, she admitted that although only having two glasses of wine prior to driving she was not aware of what size measures had been used.
She also admitted on reflection she shouldn't have driven although denied being drunk at the time of driving. I didn't find out how much she may have drunk after she returned home.
So there we have it, if there's anything any of the legal eagles would like me to find out I can always try. I've tried to keep to as much of the facts as possible, I don't think I've harmed any realistic defence she may have had by posting although I yet again add, this is second hand knowledge & may or may not contain some inaccuracies.
Obviously I'm very aware that there will be some very harsh criticisms of her behaviour on here (I'm less than impressed with her myself) & I sympathise with anyone who holds no regard for anyone involved in a drink driving case. However, these are the cards she has dealt herself & is obviously extremely worried about the charges.
Surely there has to be a car involved somewhere along the lines. Remember that hippy on Barton Moss who they tried to breathalise despite him being a pedestrian on a public footpath. Just because they have video footage doesn't mean it was her driving, I think I would take a MS90 if it came to it instead of a year or two ban.
If you have to prove innocence (yet again) whats to stop the coppers from walking into a pub a 11PM on a friday and breathalising everyone in there and then making them prove they wasn't pissed when they drove home from work earlier on?
Also what would happen if they tried to bag a pedestrian who had never had a licence or a car, can he still be done for refusing to give a sample?
I know it may not be right but it comes down to never ever talk to the police unless you have a solicitor present, ever. Deny, Deny, Deny is the only answer if you are self centred enough to want to get off (I am).
If you have to prove innocence (yet again) whats to stop the coppers from walking into a pub a 11PM on a friday and breathalising everyone in there and then making them prove they wasn't pissed when they drove home from work earlier on?
Also what would happen if they tried to bag a pedestrian who had never had a licence or a car, can he still be done for refusing to give a sample?
I know it may not be right but it comes down to never ever talk to the police unless you have a solicitor present, ever. Deny, Deny, Deny is the only answer if you are self centred enough to want to get off (I am).
No other car involved as far as I'm aware, just the 2 separate witness reports according to the police of her driving dangerously. Not sure how dangerous, but presumably dangerous enough to warrant someone videoing it & calling the police. She has admitted driving remember.
Again, any ideas of likely sentences & fines? As both carry a minimum 12 month ban & fine is the least she can look forward to a 2 year ban and extra large fine?
Again, any ideas of likely sentences & fines? As both carry a minimum 12 month ban & fine is the least she can look forward to a 2 year ban and extra large fine?
NH1 said:
Surely there has to be a car involved somewhere along the lines. Remember that hippy on Barton Moss who they tried to breathalise despite him being a pedestrian on a public footpath. Just because they have video footage doesn't mean it was her driving, I think I would take a MS90 if it came to it instead of a year or two ban.
If you have to prove innocence (yet again) whats to stop the coppers from walking into a pub a 11PM on a friday and breathalising everyone in there and then making them prove they wasn't pissed when they drove home from work earlier on?
Also what would happen if they tried to bag a pedestrian who had never had a licence or a car, can he still be done for refusing to give a sample?
I know it may not be right but it comes down to never ever talk to the police unless you have a solicitor present, ever. Deny, Deny, Deny is the only answer if you are self centred enough to want to get off (I am).
Exactly.If you have to prove innocence (yet again) whats to stop the coppers from walking into a pub a 11PM on a friday and breathalising everyone in there and then making them prove they wasn't pissed when they drove home from work earlier on?
Also what would happen if they tried to bag a pedestrian who had never had a licence or a car, can he still be done for refusing to give a sample?
I know it may not be right but it comes down to never ever talk to the police unless you have a solicitor present, ever. Deny, Deny, Deny is the only answer if you are self centred enough to want to get off (I am).
Another scenario would be a person who goes and to wash his car on his drive after having had quite a few drinks in the garden. Person puts key in ignition for power so he can listen to the radio while he hoovers out the car. This person was observed drinking by a nosy neighbour who sees him go to the car. Nosy neighbour then calls the police and they arrive 2 hours later and by this time he is back in his garden knocking back some more drinks.
If hes foolishly let them in but refuse to provide a sample. Remember that he is under no obligation to let them in the first place without a search warrant, can he be arrested? I believe in a situation like I have described here and the OP's situation, it can not be said that a specimen was lawfully requested.
I am not a lawyer/policeman. This is just my opinion.
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