arrested for DD last night, refused to give sample

[LaurasOtherHalf]

TheBear said:

So what was the result of the evidential test at the station?

The one at home is irrelevant, it just led to her arrest and cannot be used.

No evidential test was taken at the station

[Slobberchops]

Pothole said:

I'm finding it hard to understand why a female pensioner needed to be arrested and kept in a cell overnight over this.

What relevance is the gender? None whatsoever.

Needs to be sober to be charged or bailed?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

NPI said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Again, any ideas of likely sentences & fines?

Understand that she's a family friend, but you seem very concerned. Surely it's better that she's taken off the road?

I think the family is concerned she may be looking at jail, community service etc

[Eclassy]

La Liga said:

t doesn't take too much searching to find the powers of entry.

Trespassing becomes highly relevant if there's no power of entry and at which time the request is made to provide an entry.

It wont be trespass as the lady has most likely invited the police in. But the police cant search my house just because I have invited them in. The police cant ask me for a sample just because I have invited them in. If for instance this lady refused to let them in, can you tell me what power of entry they could have used to break down her door?

[Slobberchops]

If he was cleaning his car on private property he is not drunk in charge as such.

[Steffan]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

NPI said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Again, any ideas of likely sentences & fines?

Understand that she's a family friend, but you seem very concerned. Surely it's better that she's taken off the road?

I think the family is concerned she may be looking at jail, community service etc

I understand that concern. If she was driving dangerously and under the influence then my concern would be for all other road users. It sounds as if a lot more has gone on than we are aware of as yet.

[vonhosen]

Eclassy said:

La Liga said:

t doesn't take too much searching to find the powers of entry.

Trespassing becomes highly relevant if there's no power of entry and at which time the request is made to provide an entry.

It wont be trespass as the lady has most likely invited the police in. But the police cant search my house just because I have invited them in. The police cant ask me for a sample just because I have invited them in. If for instance this lady refused to let them in, can you tell me what power of entry they could have used to break down her door?

Are you asking or telling what they can or can't do?

[Eclassy]

vonhosen said:

Are you asking or telling what they can or can't do?

Asking.

If I refuse to let the police in my house after they have received a third party report of me driving under the influence. What power of entry can the police use to break down my door?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Steffan said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

NPI said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Again, any ideas of likely sentences & fines?

Understand that she's a family friend, but you seem very concerned. Surely it's better that she's taken off the road?

I think the family is concerned she may be looking at jail, community service etc

I understand that concern. If she was driving dangerously and under the influence then my concern would be for all other road users. It sounds as if a lot more has gone on than we are aware of as yet.

Obviously all us other road users would be concerned too steffan! Insofar as a lot more else going on, I'm being completely honest when I think that the facts as presented so far are pretty much it, my wife has seen her car & it certainly isn't damaged. I suspect that if any other vehicle was involved she would also have been charged with leaving the scene of an accident.

Which obviously leads me to think any video evidence a witness has filmed may show some extremely poor driving, for instance mounting a curb, not obeying the traffic laws at a junction, weaving into oncoming cars etc.

All of that is speculation I may add, though I haven't ever been driven by her personally so I'm not exactly sure just how she drives on a day to day basis!

[eldar]

It would seem to me that the amount she drank is immaterial, there is no evidence she was above the limit or not. The charge is failing to provide, which has similar penalties to driving above the limit.

There are some reasons why failing to provide a breath specimen may occur, chronic asthma, emphysema or similar. These reasons should be established at the time, and alternative arrangements made. Unusual for this medical to proceed as far as custody without medical advice.

Dangerous driving sound unlikely, unless some convincing evidence is available.

[vonhosen]

Eclassy said:

vonhosen said:

Are you asking or telling what they can or can't do?

Asking.

If I refuse to let the police in my house after they have received a third party report of me driving under the influence. What power of entry can the police use to break down my door?

A requirement under sec 6(5) or arrest under 6D (personal injury accidents).

[vonhosen]

Eclassy said:

I am not a lawyer/policeman. This is just my opinion.

Opinion doesn't matter for much.

[eldar]

vonhosen said:

Opinion doesn't matter for much.

In your opinion....

[mph1977]

Billyray911 said:

Pothole said:

I'm finding it hard to understand why a female pensioner needed to be arrested and kept in a cell overnight over this.

To be interviewed when sober.This will obviously depend on how much alcohol she has in her body.And as you have next to no facts (as do I) regarding what has actually happened,reserve uninformed comments until then.

exactly

IIRC there are three groups of people who are deemed as expert witnesses when it comes to determining intoxication

Police Officers
Health Professionals ( mainly Medical Practitioners, Paramedics and Nurses)
Holders of a (alcohol) Personal Licence .

the original story is full of holes however

IF the Police Officers formed an impression from her behaviour , manner, physical signs etc of intoxication

IF she then failed to provide but had no valid clinical reason for failing to provide ( such as end stage lung disease )

she's up st creek without a paddle if charged with failing to provide.

[Greendubber]

Great thread, full of people who don't know what they're talking about.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

mph1977 said:

exactly

IIRC there are three groups of people who are deemed as expert witnesses when it comes to determining intoxication

Police Officers
Health Professionals ( mainly Medical Practitioners, Paramedics and Nurses)
Holders of a (alcohol) Personal Licence .

the original story is full of holes however

IF the Police Officers formed an impression from her behaviour , manner, physical signs etc of intoxication

IF she then failed to provide but had no valid clinical reason for failing to provide ( such as end stage lung disease )

she's up st creek without a paddle if charged with failing to provide.

Thanks for the answer, I think the failure to provide charge is accepted by the accused as the least she will get.

The worry for her it would seem, is the dangerous driving part carries much harsher penalties such as custodial sentences (I'm not aware if it can be linked to the failure to provide charge to carry more gravitas). Even if unlikely, I suspect this has put the sts right up her, so to speak.

I'm led to believe the police haven't fully explained exactly what the other witnesses saw but I'm assuming it wasn't exemplary lane discipline & inch perfect apex clipping.

[Greendubber]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Thanks for the answer, I think the failure to provide charge is accepted by the accused as the least she will get.

The worry for her it would seem, is the dangerous driving part carries much harsher penalties such as custodial sentences (I'm not aware if it can be linked to the failure to provide charge to carry more gravitas). Even if unlikely, I suspect this has put the sts right up her, so to speak.

I'm led to believe the police haven't fully explained exactly what the other witnesses saw but I'm assuming it wasn't exemplary lane discipline & inch perfect apex clipping.

She would have been interviewed, thw account from the witness would have been put to her, a lot will depend on what she said in interview. From someone who deals with this stuff as a living without the full account from her then I have no idea what will happen. She needs to get a lift/bus to court though as she won't be allowed to drive home if she's been charged with failing to provide a specimen.

[MrADC]

Similar scenario affected a friend of mine - he became so obsessed with "beating it" he ended up being charged with ATPTCoJ - custodial sentence....ensuing personal and professional meltdown - hardly worth that?!

If you are dim enough to drink and drive - accepting the punishment is far less risky that trying to wriggle out of it.

IMHO

[LaurasOtherHalf]

MrADC said:

Similar scenario affected a friend of mine - he became so obsessed with "beating it" he ended up being charged with ATPTCoJ - custodial sentence....ensuing personal and professional meltdown - hardly worth that?!

If you are dim enough to drink and drive - accepting the punishment is far less risky that trying to wriggle out of it.

IMHO

As stated above, I don't think that trying to wriggle out of it is either an option or intended.

I think the main concerns are limiting the harshness of the penalties that will be coming her way.

[340600]

Greendubber said:

She needs to get a lift/bus to court though as she won't be allowed to drive home if she's been charged with failing to provide a specimen.

Yep. From the details given I'd say a minimum 12 month disqualification is inevitable.

On a side note Greendubber I see your lot are an Insignia down thanks to a drink driver last night. Scary.