Ticket from Police only on word of (an)other motorist(s)....
Discussion
http://www.police.govt.nz/advice/driving-and-road-...
"You can report non-urgent incidents of poor driving where you do not wish the offender to be prosecuted. Incidents include dangerous overtaking, crossing the centre line, tailgating or holding up traffic on a motorway. If you can provide a registration plate number, Police will write to the driver."
"No investigation or prosecution will take place for a Community Roadwatch report and Police do not normally report back to those making the report. If you want the incident to be investigated with a view to the offender being prosecuted, you must lodge a formal complaint at your nearest police station."
I'd have thought that if two people call *555 and report the same vehicle then Police may act immediately. NZ roads aren't a labyrinth, there are just the major routes, so chances are a car will stay on one main road for quite and Police will be able to locate it and talk to the driver to hopefully alter their behaviour for the rest of the journey. If the behaviour is due to drink driving then it may have stopped a worse incident down the road. For that reason it is a good 'tier 2' system.
Many NZ drivers will dawdle along single carriageway roads at 70kph then when a nice wide section with a passing lane arrives they speed up to 100, only to drop down to 70 again. This frustrates the heck out of following drivers, who then start to take more risks like leaving it to the last few metres of passing lane. If you stray over 110 (or 104kph currently) you are liable for a speeding ticket. Police cars have live forward and rearward radar.
Of course *555 can be used to report people who speed up at passing lanes, or any other dumbass behaviour.
"You can report non-urgent incidents of poor driving where you do not wish the offender to be prosecuted. Incidents include dangerous overtaking, crossing the centre line, tailgating or holding up traffic on a motorway. If you can provide a registration plate number, Police will write to the driver."
"No investigation or prosecution will take place for a Community Roadwatch report and Police do not normally report back to those making the report. If you want the incident to be investigated with a view to the offender being prosecuted, you must lodge a formal complaint at your nearest police station."
I'd have thought that if two people call *555 and report the same vehicle then Police may act immediately. NZ roads aren't a labyrinth, there are just the major routes, so chances are a car will stay on one main road for quite and Police will be able to locate it and talk to the driver to hopefully alter their behaviour for the rest of the journey. If the behaviour is due to drink driving then it may have stopped a worse incident down the road. For that reason it is a good 'tier 2' system.
Many NZ drivers will dawdle along single carriageway roads at 70kph then when a nice wide section with a passing lane arrives they speed up to 100, only to drop down to 70 again. This frustrates the heck out of following drivers, who then start to take more risks like leaving it to the last few metres of passing lane. If you stray over 110 (or 104kph currently) you are liable for a speeding ticket. Police cars have live forward and rearward radar.
Of course *555 can be used to report people who speed up at passing lanes, or any other dumbass behaviour.
carinaman said:
That may be easier in Italy.
But then I noticed that the OP is called Mario.
I think I'll stop wondering if the OP was this chap, as it's probably not:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/richard-bruns...
But then I noticed that the OP is called Mario.
I think I'll stop wondering if the OP was this chap, as it's probably not:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/richard-bruns...
Dan M said:
Many NZ drivers will dawdle along single carriageway roads at 70kph then when a nice wide section with a passing lane arrives they speed up to 100, only to drop down to 70 again.
I have seen this soooo much in 4.5k miles here. It seems to happen most when the passing lane is going uphill which means you can almost never overtake if you're in some knackered japbox 1.1 auto or something. Our car genuinely struggles to break the speed limit on the flat.Variomatic said:
It's different to what happens here, but I can't really see a problem with it as long as you have the choice to defend it.
Driving dangerously is a criminal offence and plenty of criminal offences can be brought to trial without a policeman seeing you do it. Should shoplifters be left to carry on becaue it was only a shopkeeper who saw them? Or a murderer who'#s smart enough to wait util there are no police around?
Just because the UK may treat driving offences differently from most other offences in terms of what evidence is acceptable doesn't mean we should expect other countries to do the same.
Not the point. With shoplifting, you either did it or you didn't. Driving dangerously is a criminal offence and plenty of criminal offences can be brought to trial without a policeman seeing you do it. Should shoplifters be left to carry on becaue it was only a shopkeeper who saw them? Or a murderer who'#s smart enough to wait util there are no police around?
Just because the UK may treat driving offences differently from most other offences in terms of what evidence is acceptable doesn't mean we should expect other countries to do the same.
With alleged dangerous driving, subjectivity comes into it. A little old non driving lady can view something as dangerous when it is not.
To give a ticket on the word of people, whose expertise is unknown, is not on.
It can sometimes happen in the UK. I received a NIP through the post accusing me of Dangerous or Careless Driving, some member of the public had reported me.
On the reverse of the letter they ask you about the 'incident', maybe as a form of self incrimination.
My reply was that I had no idea what 'offence' they were talking about. I genuinely didn't, even if I did that would still have been my reply.
They dropped the case.
NZ sounds like a pretty awful system to be fair. I'd have followed the SUV and phoned 555 to report him for some random made up offence. Twice!
On the reverse of the letter they ask you about the 'incident', maybe as a form of self incrimination.
My reply was that I had no idea what 'offence' they were talking about. I genuinely didn't, even if I did that would still have been my reply.
They dropped the case.
NZ sounds like a pretty awful system to be fair. I'd have followed the SUV and phoned 555 to report him for some random made up offence. Twice!
Policing o NZ roads is becoming more and more draconian and Joe public is encouraged to report perceived "bad" driving behaviour. The usual result is a letter from the police in the mail and it goes no further. Unfortunately, the standard of driving from the numpties who generally ring in on *555 is poor at best and anyone who breaks the speed limit or who does something said numpty wouldn't do is viewed as just one small step below a mass murderer. If the OP is leaving in a week and doesn't intended coming back for a while, I'd ignore it. If not, I'd contest it along with a very polite letter of explanation. I suspect the fine would be dropped.
To answer Question 1) - Yes they can - but it is unusual.
The verbal of one motorist is unlikely, as it can be sour grapes.
IF 2 are prepared to do formal written statements - then - yes they can (and will) issue the ticket - BUT - you have the option of going to court, and the case is heard. SO you could plead Not Guilty - and hope the two complainents will not make statements.
Speeding laws here are a joke - Bank holiday weekend - the tolerance is 2.5 mph - thank you, here is your ticket, no discussion.
The problem is you are judged to be guilty until proven innocent. In a line of traffic, in the dark, how do they know from the radar it is specifically me that is speeding, take it to court sir....there, the officer will point out his training experience etc etc - and add more for the court costs. Easier to pay the 40UKP and get on with life.
In terms of skipping the country, nah - pay the fine, these things have a strange way of catching up with you. Treat it as a donation.
Going back 20 years, there was a reasonable tolerance for speeding, however in the last 10 years (in particular) the emphasis has been on no tolerance, this being a politcal directive.
Admittedly the road toll has dropped from 800+ to 400 - the galling bit is the police claim all credit due to their poolicies, this convienently ignoring, safer cars, less drink driving, better roads etc etc. Of that 400, about 20 are in police pursuits, 40% involve alcohol, probably 20 involve tourists, leaving 200 for every other reason.
However depandent where you are in the country, once you are off the main highways there are plenty of good straight country roads (Canterbury in particular) where you can cruise at lightening speed and never see a policeman.
The verbal of one motorist is unlikely, as it can be sour grapes.
IF 2 are prepared to do formal written statements - then - yes they can (and will) issue the ticket - BUT - you have the option of going to court, and the case is heard. SO you could plead Not Guilty - and hope the two complainents will not make statements.
Speeding laws here are a joke - Bank holiday weekend - the tolerance is 2.5 mph - thank you, here is your ticket, no discussion.
The problem is you are judged to be guilty until proven innocent. In a line of traffic, in the dark, how do they know from the radar it is specifically me that is speeding, take it to court sir....there, the officer will point out his training experience etc etc - and add more for the court costs. Easier to pay the 40UKP and get on with life.
In terms of skipping the country, nah - pay the fine, these things have a strange way of catching up with you. Treat it as a donation.
Going back 20 years, there was a reasonable tolerance for speeding, however in the last 10 years (in particular) the emphasis has been on no tolerance, this being a politcal directive.
Admittedly the road toll has dropped from 800+ to 400 - the galling bit is the police claim all credit due to their poolicies, this convienently ignoring, safer cars, less drink driving, better roads etc etc. Of that 400, about 20 are in police pursuits, 40% involve alcohol, probably 20 involve tourists, leaving 200 for every other reason.
However depandent where you are in the country, once you are off the main highways there are plenty of good straight country roads (Canterbury in particular) where you can cruise at lightening speed and never see a policeman.
As I said previously, it all depends how long you are in NZ for.
Police tend to hand tickets out here like confetti regardless of the circumstances - it is essential to write to the Police about 21 days AFTER receiving the Reminder Notice requesting a court hearing. The odds are very high the Police will withdraw rather than do all the work and risk defeat.
As for the original ticket, it's a form of intimidation.
Police tend to hand tickets out here like confetti regardless of the circumstances - it is essential to write to the Police about 21 days AFTER receiving the Reminder Notice requesting a court hearing. The odds are very high the Police will withdraw rather than do all the work and risk defeat.
As for the original ticket, it's a form of intimidation.
TVRnutcase said:
IF 2 are prepared to do formal written statements - then - yes they can (and will) issue the ticket - BUT - you have the option of going to court, and the case is heard. SO you could plead Not Guilty - and hope the two complainents will not make statements.
1) How formal does the written statement have to be? I can't say what nutter man did but it is conceivable provided a written statement, but SUV man just stood at the side of the road for 5 mins talking to the cops before driving off.2) Is issuing the ticket absolutely conditional on having the written statements first?
Mario149 said:
2) Is issuing the ticket absolutely conditional on having the written statements first?
Not as far as I am aware. Never been through the process before myself but I believe the police need the written statements if you wish to defend the ticket. As TVRnutcase says above "you are judged to be guilty until proven innocent. "mybrainhurts said:
With alleged dangerous driving, subjectivity comes into it. A little old non driving lady can view something as dangerous when it is not.
People reporting it may have a subjective view that the driving was dangerous, however the test, if you went to court, is objective. CR6ZZ said:
Unfortunately, the standard of driving from the numpties who generally ring in on *555 is poor at best and anyone who breaks the speed limit or who does something said numpty wouldn't do is viewed as just one small step below a mass murderer.
Ahem, I am one of those numpties you refer to, I spend a lot of time driving between Whangarei and Hamilton.So far I have dialled *555 for:
some little tosser that thinks overtaking on double yellow lines in the rain, at night, 100m before a passing lane is ok, need I mention the bridge, the bend and lack of visability https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.12796,174.43088...
Some other tosser that thinks towing a trailer in the middle of the night on SH1 with no lights and no visible rear lights is Ok
Some lawyer related tosser from Kerikeri that thinks doing 150 in the third lane (yeah the one that generally has oncoming traffic) is clearly the legal thing to do see link...
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.453831,174.6525...
lestag said:
CR6ZZ said:
Unfortunately, the standard of driving from the numpties who generally ring in on *555 is poor at best and anyone who breaks the speed limit or who does something said numpty wouldn't do is viewed as just one small step below a mass murderer.
Ahem, I am one of those numpties you refer to, I spend a lot of time driving between Whangarei and Hamilton.So far I have dialled *555 for:
some little tosser that thinks overtaking on double yellow lines in the rain, at night, 100m before a passing lane is ok, need I mention the bridge, the bend and lack of visability https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.12796,174.43088...
Some other tosser that thinks towing a trailer in the middle of the night on SH1 with no lights and no visible rear lights is Ok
Some lawyer related tosser from Kerikeri that thinks doing 150 in the third lane (yeah the one that generally has oncoming traffic) is clearly the legal thing to do see link...
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.453831,174.6525...
Little bit of an update:
My gf and I went to a community law centre (bit like CAB here I think) to get a bit of free legal advice from an actual lawyer person. She confirmed that it is legal for the police in NZ to issue a ticket based on 2nd hand info on an alleged offence they didn't witness. Not that it's much use to us as we're leaving tomorrow, but she also said that if we were to challenge it, it's almost certain that the police would "cave" at the last minute as it's not in their interest to try and push through the dodgy ones as they have to disclose all notes, get a written statement from the complainant etc etc.
All I can really say is that I'm glad at least that our traffic policing system doesn't (appear) to work like that and I guess we'll have to chalk this one up to bad luck.
My gf and I went to a community law centre (bit like CAB here I think) to get a bit of free legal advice from an actual lawyer person. She confirmed that it is legal for the police in NZ to issue a ticket based on 2nd hand info on an alleged offence they didn't witness. Not that it's much use to us as we're leaving tomorrow, but she also said that if we were to challenge it, it's almost certain that the police would "cave" at the last minute as it's not in their interest to try and push through the dodgy ones as they have to disclose all notes, get a written statement from the complainant etc etc.
All I can really say is that I'm glad at least that our traffic policing system doesn't (appear) to work like that and I guess we'll have to chalk this one up to bad luck.
Having completed over 5k miles in 7 weeks here in NZ, a few thoughts on driving here:
1) apologies to any resident Kiwis on PH, but the standard here really is quite low. A lot of it is due to foreign tourists ogling things and not paying attention I'm willing to bet, but ref the locals I've never seen so many people
a) completely oblivious to what other vehicles are doing around them (as opposed to say Italy where people seem to be acutely aware of every car on the road but just not actually give a sh*t). Part of me wonders if it's because the speed limits are so strict i.e. people just switch off if they're under the limit as they assume they can do no wrong.
b) being *very* aggressive towards other drivers for little or no reason (forget our incident, we actually saw cars repeatedly sideswiping each other in Whangerei in a built up area when one didn't want the other to merge in front of him and wouldn't let him in despite the other vehicle not having anywhere to go).
2) Policing of roads: there is a complete obsession here with speed limits, and I mean complete, as if it would single handedly cure all the road problems. Apparently it's a real political thing and tickets for speeding are handed out like confetti, with towns like Invercargill actually having quotas of issued tickets that need to be met as the fines are used to help fund the police. If the cops here spent half as much time driving around in unmarked cars stopping people doing daft things as they actually do sitting by the side of a completely straight bit of road in a marked car waiting to catch someone 2.5mph over the posted limit (yup, you'll get a ticket for that), I'm pretty sure things would be a lot safer. I would estimate that based in miles travelled, police cars by the side of the road with cameras are about 5x more prevalent in NZ compared to the UK.
Overall, I've actually found driving in NZ pretty stressful and really quite dangerous (due to other drivers, roads are generally all right) in places. Believe it or not, I'm actually looking forward to driving in the traffic crammed UK again. We may not be perfect, but at least our driving muppetry (and almost more importantly one's reaction to it) doesn't seem quite so extreme and we appear to have traffic police that do their job more intelligently and dare I say fairly.
1) apologies to any resident Kiwis on PH, but the standard here really is quite low. A lot of it is due to foreign tourists ogling things and not paying attention I'm willing to bet, but ref the locals I've never seen so many people
a) completely oblivious to what other vehicles are doing around them (as opposed to say Italy where people seem to be acutely aware of every car on the road but just not actually give a sh*t). Part of me wonders if it's because the speed limits are so strict i.e. people just switch off if they're under the limit as they assume they can do no wrong.
b) being *very* aggressive towards other drivers for little or no reason (forget our incident, we actually saw cars repeatedly sideswiping each other in Whangerei in a built up area when one didn't want the other to merge in front of him and wouldn't let him in despite the other vehicle not having anywhere to go).
2) Policing of roads: there is a complete obsession here with speed limits, and I mean complete, as if it would single handedly cure all the road problems. Apparently it's a real political thing and tickets for speeding are handed out like confetti, with towns like Invercargill actually having quotas of issued tickets that need to be met as the fines are used to help fund the police. If the cops here spent half as much time driving around in unmarked cars stopping people doing daft things as they actually do sitting by the side of a completely straight bit of road in a marked car waiting to catch someone 2.5mph over the posted limit (yup, you'll get a ticket for that), I'm pretty sure things would be a lot safer. I would estimate that based in miles travelled, police cars by the side of the road with cameras are about 5x more prevalent in NZ compared to the UK.
Overall, I've actually found driving in NZ pretty stressful and really quite dangerous (due to other drivers, roads are generally all right) in places. Believe it or not, I'm actually looking forward to driving in the traffic crammed UK again. We may not be perfect, but at least our driving muppetry (and almost more importantly one's reaction to it) doesn't seem quite so extreme and we appear to have traffic police that do their job more intelligently and dare I say fairly.
Edited by Mario149 on Sunday 27th April 04:31
Edited by Mario149 on Sunday 27th April 05:09
Slightly OT, but my local radio station has started playing an add encouraging people to phone in if they see a car dropping litter.
"If you see a car drop litter, what do you do? Ignore it? Or report it? Take down the vehicle reg, model and colour, and report it, and the council will issue a £100 fine to the driver"!!
To me, that is nuts, and wide open to abuse and malicious allegations.
"If you see a car drop litter, what do you do? Ignore it? Or report it? Take down the vehicle reg, model and colour, and report it, and the council will issue a £100 fine to the driver"!!
To me, that is nuts, and wide open to abuse and malicious allegations.
I had exactly the same thing in Tasmania and posted a thread on here about it, will dig it out.
I accepted at the time then changed my mind and emailed them objecting. They downgraded it to a caution.
ETA: here you go http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I accepted at the time then changed my mind and emailed them objecting. They downgraded it to a caution.
ETA: here you go http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Google [bot] on Sunday 27th April 05:48
Mario149 said:
Little bit of an update:
... free legal advice from an actual lawyer person. Not that it's much use to us as we're leaving tomorrow, but she also said that if we were to challenge it, it's almost certain that the police would "cave" at the last minute as it's not in their interest to try and push through the dodgy ones
All I can really say is that I'm glad at least that our traffic policing system doesn't (appear) to work like that and I guess we'll have to chalk this one up to bad luck.
... free legal advice from an actual lawyer person. Not that it's much use to us as we're leaving tomorrow, but she also said that if we were to challenge it, it's almost certain that the police would "cave" at the last minute as it's not in their interest to try and push through the dodgy ones
All I can really say is that I'm glad at least that our traffic policing system doesn't (appear) to work like that and I guess we'll have to chalk this one up to bad luck.
Similar to what I have already said, the Police don't like being challenged here - they will frequently drop cases to avoid losing.
If you are leaving tomorrow there is no point in doing anything any further in any case. Just ignore it. The fine couldn't be enforced whatever happens.
If you gave your correct address (outside NZ), you may get a Reminder Notice. If this occurs you can either 1, ignore, or 2, deny the offence, request a hearing, and point out you have no intention of returning to NZ.
Do you really think the police are going to bother?
New Zealand fines CANNOT be enforced outside NZ.
Edited to add, strange how visitors to NZ can see the obsession with speed there is here, and the poor driving standards. The South Island is better as there are fewer cars, but still the same standard of policing (and driving)
Edited by caziques on Sunday 27th April 05:46
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