A cautionary tale & reporting an accident - who is has to?
Discussion
Eldest son is at University in Bolton.
Two and a half weeks ago he was crossing the road outside the university at a set of lights, which indicated green for pedestrians - as he did so the first vehicle in the queue on the far side was a coach.
As he passed the front of the coach, a cyclist who evidently had no intention of stopping for the red light, was coming up the inside of the coach unseen by my son.
As he stepped past the front of the coach, the cyclist struck him, and they were both flung to the ground - my son dazed, and half under the front corner of the coach.
The cyclist got up hurling abuse about pedestrians not looking where they were going, but quickly got back on his bike and pedaled off.
Meanwhile the lights holding up the coach went green - and the coach set off!
My son had rolled over and sat up - just in time to prevent his legs being crushed - but the front wheel of the coach rubbed past his back, and the friction pushed him back over onto his side!
An off duty (his words) first responder witnessed the accident, and the coach stopped once the driver realised his proximity to my son, and asked if he was OK.
However, being still dazed, my son answered that he was "OK", and able to stand up - and the coach left the scene.
The first responder checked his arms and ribs, and determined that nothing was broken - just severe bruising around his midriff and a bruise on his back from the coach wheel.
He advised my son that he should continue home and if the pain became worse, take over the counter pain killers.
Next day he was very sore, very bruised on his chest, less so on his back and took the pain killers for a couple of days.
Cue Easter break, he came home, and drew our attention to a large hard lump in his side below his ribs which was not painful, but not normal, so he went to casualty after the Bank Holidays.
Turns out to be a hematoma resulting from internal bleeding, and they told him he had been exceedingly lucky - the bleeding had not resulted in damage to his internal organs!
So if you ever have a seemingly trivial accident that results in just bruising - even from a seat belt apparently, GO AND GET YOURSELF LOOKED OVER PROPERLY in casualty!
Now my questions - (1)which of the participants should have been responsible for reporting this accident, and who to? 101, or 999 to try and get the cyclist detained?
According to the doctors this could have proved fatal since medical attention was not sought straight away.
(2) Obviously the cyclist was long gone and might prove difficult to track down - but do members of the public have a duty to detain them should they try to leave?
and (3) should a claim arise for expenses arising from more serious consequences in such a situation, would the coach company's insurance be liable for them all, or just a fraction of them given the driver's minor role?
Finally when will the lunatic and arrogant behaviour of such cyclists be taken seriously enough that action is finally taken to ensure that they could be identified?
Two and a half weeks ago he was crossing the road outside the university at a set of lights, which indicated green for pedestrians - as he did so the first vehicle in the queue on the far side was a coach.
As he passed the front of the coach, a cyclist who evidently had no intention of stopping for the red light, was coming up the inside of the coach unseen by my son.
As he stepped past the front of the coach, the cyclist struck him, and they were both flung to the ground - my son dazed, and half under the front corner of the coach.
The cyclist got up hurling abuse about pedestrians not looking where they were going, but quickly got back on his bike and pedaled off.
Meanwhile the lights holding up the coach went green - and the coach set off!
My son had rolled over and sat up - just in time to prevent his legs being crushed - but the front wheel of the coach rubbed past his back, and the friction pushed him back over onto his side!
An off duty (his words) first responder witnessed the accident, and the coach stopped once the driver realised his proximity to my son, and asked if he was OK.
However, being still dazed, my son answered that he was "OK", and able to stand up - and the coach left the scene.
The first responder checked his arms and ribs, and determined that nothing was broken - just severe bruising around his midriff and a bruise on his back from the coach wheel.
He advised my son that he should continue home and if the pain became worse, take over the counter pain killers.
Next day he was very sore, very bruised on his chest, less so on his back and took the pain killers for a couple of days.
Cue Easter break, he came home, and drew our attention to a large hard lump in his side below his ribs which was not painful, but not normal, so he went to casualty after the Bank Holidays.
Turns out to be a hematoma resulting from internal bleeding, and they told him he had been exceedingly lucky - the bleeding had not resulted in damage to his internal organs!
So if you ever have a seemingly trivial accident that results in just bruising - even from a seat belt apparently, GO AND GET YOURSELF LOOKED OVER PROPERLY in casualty!
Now my questions - (1)which of the participants should have been responsible for reporting this accident, and who to? 101, or 999 to try and get the cyclist detained?
According to the doctors this could have proved fatal since medical attention was not sought straight away.
(2) Obviously the cyclist was long gone and might prove difficult to track down - but do members of the public have a duty to detain them should they try to leave?
and (3) should a claim arise for expenses arising from more serious consequences in such a situation, would the coach company's insurance be liable for them all, or just a fraction of them given the driver's minor role?
Finally when will the lunatic and arrogant behaviour of such cyclists be taken seriously enough that action is finally taken to ensure that they could be identified?
At some point these morons will realise its time to operate within the rules. Unlikely to happen without consequence :-(
My office is in Victoria and ive witnessed two awful incidents involving cyclists, one their fault the other completely innocent. But most buzz around feeling completely exonerated from the law or the laws of physics.
Glad your son is o.k!
My office is in Victoria and ive witnessed two awful incidents involving cyclists, one their fault the other completely innocent. But most buzz around feeling completely exonerated from the law or the laws of physics.
Glad your son is o.k!
Cyclist had no "duty" to report to the police as it would not amount to an RTC. It only became an rtc once the bus made contact with your son, so had he realised, the driver should have reported it and exchanged details to comply with the RTA. No duty on any person to detain the cyclist.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Cyclist had no "duty" to report to the police as it would not amount to an RTC. It only became an rtc once the bus made contact with your son, so had he realised, the driver should have reported it and exchanged details to comply with the RTA. No duty on any person to detain the cyclist.
So a collision with a cyclist isn't an RTC, only with a motor vehicle?Edited to correct spelling, with thanks to Mk3
Edited by NNH on Thursday 24th April 20:44
NNH said:
So a collision with a cyclist is an RTC, only with a motor vehicle?
Yup. An rtc is an incident, where owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road...injury or damage is caused to another vehicle/person. Assuming you mean isn't not is!
Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Thursday 24th April 20:43
NNH said:
So a collision with a cyclist is an RTC, only with a motor vehicle?
In plain English it is a collision involving road traffic, but the duty to stop and give details only applies to the driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle, which a cycle isn't.http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...
Mk3Spitfire said:
NNH said:
So a collision with a cyclist is an RTC, only with a motor vehicle?
Yup. An rtc is an incident, where owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road...injury or damage is caused to another vehicle/person. ^^ Exactly. The wording is sometimes misleading. A motor vehicle is basically mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV), which is adapted for use on a public road. I.e indicators etc have been added. So an RTC would cover tractors or diggers etc, but not a pedal bike or an invalid carriage.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Cyclist had no "duty" to report to the police as it would not amount to an RTC. It only became an rtc once the bus made contact with your son, so had he realised, the driver should have reported it and exchanged details to comply with the RTA. No duty on any person to detain the cyclist.
Does this infer then that certain cyclists can ride like t
ts, ignore the laws that govern behaviour at pedestrian crossings/junctions, perhaps causing injury in a collision with themselves and causing the collision between a pedestrian and another motor vehicle (i.e. forcing a pedestrian into the path of another vehicle) then ride off into the sunset with impunity, while the driver of the vehicle has to stay and take the flak? 
Based on what my son told me, I feel the coach driver while not seeing the accident along side, must have seen the cyclist fall down ahead of him, and been more cautious before setting off - the consequences could have been tragic if he had run over my sons legs.
But the fault of both aspects of the accident should surely lie with the (unlawful?) behaviour of the cyclist.
I'm guessing that his quick getaway indicated he knew he was to blame.
Thats good then....... Fookin bikers should obey the rules of the road. STOP means STOP just as it does for us car/van and motorbike drivers/riders.
Im glad your boy is ok.
Im off to B&Q to get some broom handles as those accidentally slipped through some spokes when a bike jumps a red light could be interesting.
Im glad your boy is ok.
Im off to B&Q to get some broom handles as those accidentally slipped through some spokes when a bike jumps a red light could be interesting.
Thats good then....... Fookin bikers should obey the rules of the road. STOP means STOP just as it does for us car/van and motorbike drivers/riders.
Im glad your boy is ok.
Im off to B&Q to get some broom handles as those accidentally slipped through some spokes when a bike jumps a red light could be interesting.
Im glad your boy is ok.
Im off to B&Q to get some broom handles as those accidentally slipped through some spokes when a bike jumps a red light could be interesting.
Mill Wheel. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that this is the law and as such, the answer to your question. There are offences riders of pedal bikes can be prosecuted for. For example, "furious and wonton cycling". But as far as RTC's go, the cyclist was not liable. His morals clearly leave a lot to be desired, no doubt, but from an RTC point of view, he had no duty.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Mill Wheel. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that this is the law and as such, the answer to your question. There are offences riders of pedal bikes can be prosecuted for. For example, "furious and wonton cycling". But as far as RTC's go, the cyclist was not liable. His morals clearly leave a lot to be desired, no doubt, but from an RTC point of view, he had no duty.
The cyclist went through a red light and injured someone. He's liable (at least morally). And Karma will kill him soon. Mk3Spitfire said:
Mill Wheel. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that this is the law and as such, the answer to your question. There are offences riders of pedal bikes can be prosecuted for. For example, "furious and wonton cycling". But as far as RTC's go, the cyclist was not liable. His morals clearly leave a lot to be desired, no doubt, but from an RTC point of view, he had no duty.
What gets to me most is that although we did not know it at the time, this incident could have resulted in a death.Surely if there is not already some law that holds the perpetrator responsible, then there should be.
If I were so minded, I could run down somebody (accidentally of course) I didn't like on my bike and ride off?
I have found out that a friend of ours was involved in a fairly low speed head on collision.
Police attended, but in similar circumstances, she told everyone she was not badly hurt, and did not attend hospital.
Next day she still seemed uninjured apart from bruising from the seatbelt and for 24 hours went about her normal routine, albeit in some discomfort. When the pain was so bad she felt she needed prescription painkillers, she presented herself at her GPs surgery and was sent for an X-ray, which revealed not only did she have a broken sternum, but a part of the fractured bone and rib were threatening to pierce her heart. She was told that bending down to tie a shoelace could have killed her.
In the light of these incidents, it seems a visit to casualty is recommended after any incident, even if injuries are not apparent.
MW & I post on another motoring forum, where I maintain that with cyclists showing this sort of attitude , it's high time that the cycle needs some form of ID ,so that cyclists like this one can be tracked. There seems to be some form of double standard on this. Motorist moves over to let emergency vehicle through and gets hit,(as driver can be traced), but cyclist can run red light and cause mayhem and get off as there's no tracking info.
Cyclist clearly culpable.
Requirement for the coach driver to stop and report only where his collision results in harm, I think. It didn't so no RTC obligation.
Cyclist not covered by RTC so that's not the relevant legislation -- S28 and S36 RTA apply, and death/injury by wanton and furious carries upto 2 years in prison.
Requirement for the coach driver to stop and report only where his collision results in harm, I think. It didn't so no RTC obligation.
Cyclist not covered by RTC so that's not the relevant legislation -- S28 and S36 RTA apply, and death/injury by wanton and furious carries upto 2 years in prison.
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