HADECS 3 cameras on the M25
Discussion
va1o said:
Are the old ones broken? Would make more sense to put the HADECs cameras on gantries that don't already have cameras...
The way they've done it looks like a pointless exercise and waste of money
Any new cameras installed must now be the HADECS3 type, so they can't buy any more of the old HADECS gantry cameras.The way they've done it looks like a pointless exercise and waste of money
FWIW on the southern section of the M25 between the M3 and M20, my radar detector isn't triggered by any of the gantries, so it looks to me like most of the old HADECS are now turned off. They will gradually be replaced by the HADECS3 but that seems to be happening more on the northern section do far.
va1o said:
mybrainhurts said:
va1o said:
smack said:
Overnight (well the platform in preparation for the install has been there for months) a new camera has been installed between J18-19 Clockwise.
noticed these today, bit confused as they already have gantry cameras next to where it has been mounted, surely don't need two sets of cameras in one place? 
What would they do if they removed the old ones, sell them to Zimbabwe?
The way they've done it looks like a pointless exercise and waste of money
I don't think any other nation has even a fraction of this number of sneaky speed cameras on their motorway networks and yet still use variable limits to provide advanced warning to drivers. We Brits must be very naughty boys and girls! Can't drive over 112 kph on empty stretches and need livelihood threatening big brother automated enforcement, not required anywhere else, to make sure we DO WHAT WE ARE TOLD.
Also - with these overhead displays available can't we do like Germany and display more useful management info and (for example) keep trucks out of more lanes to help flow. Elephant races must lose us half the road capacity sometimes... I'll answer that myself : no of course not - that might actually help and anyway the ONLY thing the matters on a UK road is the officially sanctioned upper speed limit
What a joke our road management policy is.
Davidonly said:
va1o said:
mybrainhurts said:
va1o said:
smack said:
Overnight (well the platform in preparation for the install has been there for months) a new camera has been installed between J18-19 Clockwise.
noticed these today, bit confused as they already have gantry cameras next to where it has been mounted, surely don't need two sets of cameras in one place? What would they do if they removed the old ones, sell them to Zimbabwe?
The way they've done it looks like a pointless exercise and waste of money
I don't think any other nation has even a fraction of this number of sneaky speed cameras on their motorway networks and yet still use variable limits to provide advanced warning to drivers. We Brits must be very naughty boys and girls! Can't drive over 112 kph on empty stretches and need livelihood threatening big brother automated enforcement, not required anywhere else, to make sure we DO WHAT WE ARE TOLD.
Also - with these overhead displays available can't we do like Germany and display more useful management info and (for example) keep trucks out of more lanes to help flow. Elephant races must lose us half the road capacity sometimes... I'll answer that myself : no of course not - that might actually help and anyway the ONLY thing the matters on a UK road is the officially sanctioned upper speed limit
What a joke our road management policy is.
speedyguy said:
Pete317 said:
Davidonly said:
What a joke our road management policy is.
There are places where junctions could be improved, such as the Trafford Centre junction on the M60, which would more directly target the congestion problem than a smart motorway. Proper widening has only not been done to save a bit of money in the short term. Government works on short term, quick fix solutions because it never really thinks more than four years ahead to the next election.
The ideas behind the speed management are contradictory. On the one hand, traffic jams are supposed to be avoided by stopping people catching up with the traffic in front and eliminating wave braking. On the other, it's supposed to allow vehicles to travel closer together, thereby increasing road capacity. So, are we supposed to travel closer to what's in front or not catch up with it? If traffic is closer together at low speed there is going to be more brake tapping and more wave braking. As soon as the 50mph signs went up on the M60 the traffic jams became permanent rather than just at rush hour and it was weeks before any roadworks actually started. A 50mph limit in itself created traffic congestion.
speedyguy said:
Pete317 said:
Davidonly said:
What a joke our road management policy is.
There is zero data to support the massive use of these cameras and the reasons for the use of speed enforcement include nebulous s
t like air quality - whereas sanction is perceived to be reserved for SAFETY related issues (hence points on licenses). There is a serious disconnect.Next up is the dubious practice of creating income flows with 'speed awareness courses'. I would expect that fewer of these scams would be in use should the vested interests there have had their revenue flows cut-off (as I hope will become the case). Clearly the massive deployment on the safest type of road is the result of lobbying by this entirely corrupt 'system'. Its quite an industry now you know.
Information please - why is the limit varying? Distance to hazard please.. stuff like that. Supply us with information.
Do the nobs that set these things up ever actually drive anywhere? They need to factor in real-world effects and clearly do not do so. Looking at avg speed scam zones would be a great place to start with that one. There really is no proper research being done on these subjects.
My own solution to all of this?
I don't use motorways as much. I drive further on lower classes of roads to avoid the crap on the motorways. (Unless I HAVE to use them).
Blakewater said:
The ideas behind the speed management are contradictory. On the one hand, traffic jams are supposed to be avoided by stopping people catching up with the traffic in front and eliminating wave braking. On the other, it's supposed to allow vehicles to travel closer together, thereby increasing road capacity. So, are we supposed to travel closer to what's in front or not catch up with it? If traffic is closer together at low speed there is going to be more brake tapping and more wave braking. As soon as the 50mph signs went up on the M60 the traffic jams became permanent rather than just at rush hour and it was weeks before any roadworks actually started. A 50mph limit in itself created traffic congestion.
My M25 experience implies it doesn't even really work anyway as traffic can still come to a standstill due to sheer volume - whatever the speed number showing on the gantry.I got flashed by one of these sts late on Saturday evening. Variable speed limit was not in use and traffic was quiet (for the M25).
Was using my father's TomTom and forgot that his doesn't have the speed camera warnings like my one does! I was doing an indicated 86mph, but weirdly the car that had just overtaken me in the outside lane was not flashed, whereas the car behind me (travelling around the same speed as I was) did get lit up. No idea if I'll get a ticket or not - not been in this position before!
ts late on Saturday evening. Variable speed limit was not in use and traffic was quiet (for the M25).Was using my father's TomTom and forgot that his doesn't have the speed camera warnings like my one does! I was doing an indicated 86mph, but weirdly the car that had just overtaken me in the outside lane was not flashed, whereas the car behind me (travelling around the same speed as I was) did get lit up. No idea if I'll get a ticket or not - not been in this position before!
David87 said:
I got flashed by one of these sts late on Saturday evening. Variable speed limit was not in use and traffic was quiet (for the M25).
Was using my father's TomTom and forgot that his doesn't have the speed camera warnings like my one does! I was doing an indicated 86mph, but weirdly the car that had just overtaken me in the outside lane was not flashed, whereas the car behind me (travelling around the same speed as I was) also got flashed. No idea if I'll get a ticket or not - not been in this position before!
Location of camera?ts late on Saturday evening. Variable speed limit was not in use and traffic was quiet (for the M25).Was using my father's TomTom and forgot that his doesn't have the speed camera warnings like my one does! I was doing an indicated 86mph, but weirdly the car that had just overtaken me in the outside lane was not flashed, whereas the car behind me (travelling around the same speed as I was) also got flashed. No idea if I'll get a ticket or not - not been in this position before!
I have noticed after a busy month of work that had me doing a lot of miles in cars for a change (rather than the motorbike, or working from home), that all HADECS 2 units are no longer have their radar units switched on. Even the cashcow units around Rickmansworth and Watford that forever were flashing away, and were still active only 2 or 3 weeks ago are now off.
And I was up in Manchester last week, so did a tour of the M40/M6/M1, and the only units emitting signals were the HADACS 3 units.
And I was up in Manchester last week, so did a tour of the M40/M6/M1, and the only units emitting signals were the HADACS 3 units.
I am assuming they will leave the old camera boxes in place as some sort of deterent but I wonder if any of the speed camera databases will remove them? Would be nice to only be warned of the Haldecs 3 rather than all the old stuff every few miles. Tempted to just delete them myself now.
dogbucket said:
In the last few weeks I have noticed a new one just before jnt10 anticlock, the actual cameras are hidden by trees until you are almost on top of them.
Is it right before the new ish services on M25 near the A3? Noticed it myself the other week and as you say they have allowed trees etc to grow up on the traffic side but trimmed them on the other! Same with the 3 cctv cameras. TX.
Terminator X said:
dogbucket said:
In the last few weeks I have noticed a new one just before jnt10 anticlock, the actual cameras are hidden by trees until you are almost on top of them.
Is it right before the new ish services on M25 near the A3? Noticed it myself the other week and as you say they have allowed trees etc to grow up on the traffic side but trimmed them on the other! Same with the 3 cctv cameras. TX.
FurtiveFreddy said:
Terminator X said:
dogbucket said:
In the last few weeks I have noticed a new one just before jnt10 anticlock, the actual cameras are hidden by trees until you are almost on top of them.
Is it right before the new ish services on M25 near the A3? Noticed it myself the other week and as you say they have allowed trees etc to grow up on the traffic side but trimmed them on the other! Same with the 3 cctv cameras. TX.
Are these above the gantries for variable speed?
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
ashleyman said:
Are these above the gantries for variable speed?
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
The ones I mentioned are the HADECS 3 which sit on the side of the gantry. Between 9/8 are some HADECS 2 still, they are fairly easy to spot as there is no signage on top of the gantry so the camera boxes stick out the top by some way. When the gantries change limits, it does give some leeway (a couple of seconds) before the cameras activate.I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
You may have found that although you got the 50 then the NSL, ones you had already passed may have been also switched on to 50s?
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