HADECS 3 cameras on the M25
Discussion
littleredrooster said:
tapereel said:
That's nice for them but traffic police don't operate the cameras and generally don't know all of the parameters of automatic cameras.
If the 50 limit hadn't been displayed for a minimum of 60 seconds the camera couldn't have operated at that limit.
It could when a car in lane 4 went past it at more than the previously displayed limit. That's the basis of my gripe!If the 50 limit hadn't been displayed for a minimum of 60 seconds the camera couldn't have operated at that limit.
If the camera has flashed a speeding vehicle the limit must have been displayed for more than 60 seconds.
If you were sure you hadn't exceeded the limit you should have elected for court.
tapereel said:
Hadecs3 indicates what lane the vehicle was in and has a secondary check. Also if the limit has changed then ALL enforcement is suspended so the situation you describe doesn't make sense.
If the camera has flashed a speeding vehicle the limit must have been displayed for more than 60 seconds.
If you were sure you hadn't exceeded the limit you should have elected for court.
As I said, to contest it would have meant gambling a £80 SAC course and no points against (potentially) 3 points and an expensive fine/costs/trip to Essex, and how do I start to prove my case against such electronic wizardry?If the camera has flashed a speeding vehicle the limit must have been displayed for more than 60 seconds.
If you were sure you hadn't exceeded the limit you should have elected for court.
littleredrooster said:
I asked for an explanation, not a definition. So I reiterate - what do you mean by your (presumably) sarcastic reply referring to a 'social media expert'? Do tell...
I was merely trying to point out to those people who may still believe everything they read on here that, once again, the 'experts' seem to be at odds with each other!And yes, it was sarcastic! Get over it!
FurtiveFreddy said:
Landshark said:
The ones between J10 and J11 have been there ages and replace the HADECs 2 (now complete with their yellow jackets). The new ones are between J10 and J9. Neither seem to work at the moment!!!
The ones between J10 & 11 light up my detector in both directions, so I'm assuming they're active. The ones between 9 and 10 aren't.Is that what you meant?
tapereel said:
Landshark said:
tapereel said:
There is a delay of 60 seconds between a speed limit change and enforcement starting.
I think it varies a little depending where you are (not by much though)Why do you say it varies because it doesn't?
You've got to love it
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/3763/conte...
Landshark said:
Just to say I haven't been flashed in ages on the older ones and never by the newer ones, so at the mo they don't seem to be on.......
As someone else has said, HADECS2 gantry cameras at least around the south section of the M25 are now all turned off. Don't know about other HADECS2s in the M'way network.
HADECS3 are all they will be installing at new sites now and eventually they will replace the old HADECS2s completely.
They seem to get installed and either sit there for a while in some sort of test mode flashing away at relatively low speeds (as in <90 during NSL limit) and then get activated for real.
Again, talking about the M25 south section only, we've not heard of anyone being penalised at much less than 95mph when the VSL isn't on. When it is on, you don't really want to go past a HADECS3 at much more than speed limit + 5 or you may receive a letter.
In any case, 4 of the 8 HADECS3 cameras I regularly pass have not been active for many months now, so no idea why they would be installed and then left off, but maybe someone on here knows and is prepared to give us a hint?
Landshark said:
tapereel said:
Landshark said:
tapereel said:
There is a delay of 60 seconds between a speed limit change and enforcement starting.
I think it varies a little depending where you are (not by much though)Why do you say it varies because it doesn't?
You've got to love it
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/3763/conte...
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
You also need to know that whatever the state of the signs driver's can always be prosecuted for exceeding the national limit.
It is amusing watching sign 'experts' arguing the national limit doesn't apply.
It is all very simple and straightforward when you think about it.
FurtiveFreddy said:
Landshark said:
Just to say I haven't been flashed in ages on the older ones and never by the newer ones, so at the mo they don't seem to be on.......
As someone else has said, HADECS2 gantry cameras at least around the south section of the M25 are now all turned off. Don't know about other HADECS2s in the M'way network.
HADECS3 are all they will be installing at new sites now and eventually they will replace the old HADECS2s completely.
They seem to get installed and either sit there for a while in some sort of test mode flashing away at relatively low speeds (as in <90 during NSL limit) and then get activated for real.
Again, talking about the M25 south section only, we've not heard of anyone being penalised at much less than 95mph when the VSL isn't on. When it is on, you don't really want to go past a HADECS3 at much more than speed limit + 5 or you may receive a letter.
In any case, 4 of the 8 HADECS3 cameras I regularly pass have not been active for many months now, so no idea why they would be installed and then left off, but maybe someone on here knows and is prepared to give us a hint?
tapereel said:
So the technical solution gives a minimum buffer time of 50 seconds, what's wrong with that?
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
You also need to know that whatever the state of the signs driver's can always be prosecuted for exceeding the national limit.
It is amusing watching sign 'experts' arguing the national limit doesn't apply.
It is all very simple and straightforward when you think about it.
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
You also need to know that whatever the state of the signs driver's can always be prosecuted for exceeding the national limit.
It is amusing watching sign 'experts' arguing the national limit doesn't apply.
It is all very simple and straightforward when you think about it.
Edited by Landshark on Sunday 23 October 10:26
Edited by Landshark on Sunday 23 October 10:27
Landshark said:
tapereel said:
I wouldn't think so.
Think again, they are currently not turned on the southern second of the m25.I answered this question "...no idea why they would be installed and then left off, but maybe someone on here knows and is prepared to give us a hint"
tapereel said:
Landshark said:
tapereel said:
I wouldn't think so.
Think again, they are currently not turned on the southern second of the m25.I answered this question "...no idea why they would be installed and then left off, but maybe someone on here knows and is prepared to give us a hint"
tapereel said:
...if the limit has changed then ALL enforcement is suspended so the situation you describe doesn't make sense.
tapereel said:
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
So which is it then?littleredrooster said:
tapereel said:
...if the limit has changed then ALL enforcement is suspended so the situation you describe doesn't make sense.
tapereel said:
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
So which is it then?tapereel said:
littleredrooster said:
tapereel said:
...if the limit has changed then ALL enforcement is suspended so the situation you describe doesn't make sense.
tapereel said:
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
So which is it then?I couldn't care about the limit that I'm subject to most of the time. The enforcement bothers me though. Apply the word enforcement to both of your statements (as appropriate) and they might have relevance to one another.
cmaguire said:
tapereel said:
littleredrooster said:
tapereel said:
...if the limit has changed then ALL enforcement is suspended so the situation you describe doesn't make sense.
tapereel said:
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
So which is it then?
cmaguire said:
tapereel said:
littleredrooster said:
tapereel said:
...if the limit has changed then ALL enforcement is suspended so the situation you describe doesn't make sense.
tapereel said:
The regulations also say that when the limit changes to a lower one drivers are still subject to the previous limit. In case you didn't appreciate that.
So which is it then?I couldn't care about the limit that I'm subject to most of the time. The enforcement bothers me though. Apply the word enforcement to both of your statements (as appropriate) and they might have relevance to one another.
When the limit changes all enforcement from the HADECS3 is suspended for one minute. That doesn't mean that the limit is not still in force, just that the HADECS3 cameras are not enforcing it.
If a patrol car came along just as the speed limit changed, the officer in that vehicle could enforce the new limit 10 seconds after it changed, a full 50 seconds before the HADECS3 system could enforce it. The same officer could continue to enforce the lower limit even after it had changed right up to 10 seconds after it had changed.
I'm not sure why all this is difficult to you experts.
tapereel said:
No I'm not.
When the limit changes all enforcement from the HADECS3 is suspended for one minute. That doesn't mean that the limit is not still in force, just that the HADECS3 cameras are not enforcing it.
If a patrol car came along just as the speed limit changed, the officer in that vehicle could enforce the new limit 10 seconds after it changed, a full 50 seconds before the HADECS3 system could enforce it. The same officer could continue to enforce the lower limit even after it had changed right up to 10 seconds after it had changed.
I'm not sure why all this is difficult to you experts.
Let's ignore patrol cars because only you have just involved them.When the limit changes all enforcement from the HADECS3 is suspended for one minute. That doesn't mean that the limit is not still in force, just that the HADECS3 cameras are not enforcing it.
If a patrol car came along just as the speed limit changed, the officer in that vehicle could enforce the new limit 10 seconds after it changed, a full 50 seconds before the HADECS3 system could enforce it. The same officer could continue to enforce the lower limit even after it had changed right up to 10 seconds after it had changed.
I'm not sure why all this is difficult to you experts.
Your first statement implies that if I were travelling through a section of managed motorway displaying 60 mph that if the limit on the approaching gantry drops to 50 mph that I could accelerate to 120 mph (e.g.) and pass that gantry without recourse should I do so within whatever preset period of grace is operating.
cmaguire said:
tapereel said:
No I'm not.
When the limit changes all enforcement from the HADECS3 is suspended for one minute. That doesn't mean that the limit is not still in force, just that the HADECS3 cameras are not enforcing it.
If a patrol car came along just as the speed limit changed, the officer in that vehicle could enforce the new limit 10 seconds after it changed, a full 50 seconds before the HADECS3 system could enforce it. The same officer could continue to enforce the lower limit even after it had changed right up to 10 seconds after it had changed.
I'm not sure why all this is difficult to you experts.
Let's ignore patrol cars because only you have just involved them.When the limit changes all enforcement from the HADECS3 is suspended for one minute. That doesn't mean that the limit is not still in force, just that the HADECS3 cameras are not enforcing it.
If a patrol car came along just as the speed limit changed, the officer in that vehicle could enforce the new limit 10 seconds after it changed, a full 50 seconds before the HADECS3 system could enforce it. The same officer could continue to enforce the lower limit even after it had changed right up to 10 seconds after it had changed.
I'm not sure why all this is difficult to you experts.
Your first statement implies that if I were travelling through a section of managed motorway displaying 60 mph that if the limit on the approaching gantry drops to 50 mph that I could accelerate to 120 mph (e.g.) and pass that gantry without recourse should I do so within whatever preset period of grace is operating.
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