HADECS 3 cameras on the M25

[b0rk]

speedyguy said:

I don't know or care really, i haven't got the need or inclination to find out

Anyway do i dare ask your view on when they start start sending NIPS using Hadecs 3 for Red X compliance?

I don't actually care either! and extending the system to include red X enforcement, average speed, tailgating all seem quite logical applications of the technology. I was surprised to discover the current system can not be used for ANPR purposes and seperate cameras are needed.

What I do wonder is, if considering the development time frame of the late 90's early 00's was a period were roads pricing was being openly discussed by politicians if the system had been originally envisaged to play role. This capability may admittedly have not been developed into the final system. The M42 active traffic management pilot had on ramp and off ramp monitoring, something I do not believe features on other [-]managed[-/] smart motorway schemes.

[mygoldfishbowl]

emmaT2014 said:

mygoldfishbowl said:

Every fixed camera is at least 10%+2. No, I can't give you proof apart from my own experience with these new Hadecs3 cameras, I'm sorry. On the other side no one will show proof of enforcing 70. My experience as someone who drives for a living regularly on the M25 is... Be sensible & much over 90 you may get a nip. My opinion.

Here's someone who was caught exceeding 70mph/NSl with the signs switched off:

manthatkid on pepipoo.com said:

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 - 12:30
I've used the calculator already but thanks for the link. Without knowing if Overtime is inclusive or not though i'm unable to calculate my weekly wage accurately.

The Gantry's Variable Speed Displays were switched off and so it was the full 70mph.

source: http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t7...

Unless I missed it he doesn't say what speed he received a nip for. He does say though that he is expecting a court summons, so that tells us he was doing at least 96.

[mygoldfishbowl]

mybrainhurts said:

mygoldfishbowl said:

Every fixed camera is at least 10%+2.

Don't rely on that. Our previous chief constable decided a handful of cameras in the county needed to trigger at 32 in a 30 because accidents were too high.

I thought this was a rumour until I met several people who had been done for 32.

Fair comment.

[FurtiveFreddy]

mygoldfishbowl said:

Unless I missed it he doesn't say what speed he received a nip for. He does say though that he is expecting a court summons, so that tells us he was doing at least 96.

It was in the title of the thread - 103mph from memory

[FurtiveFreddy]

b0rk said:

What I do wonder is, if considering the development time frame of the late 90's early 00's was a period were roads pricing was being openly discussed by politicians if the system had been originally envisaged to play role. This capability may admittedly have not been developed into the final system. The M42 active traffic management pilot had on ramp and off ramp monitoring, something I do not believe features on other [-]managed[-/] smart motorway schemes.

Ramp metering seems to be something that has been implemented on a case by case basis, for instance where you might have two junctions within a couple of miles of each other.

It could have a part to play in smart motorway schemes, but doesn't seem to be a core part of the design going by the planned schemes I've seen near me (M3 & M4).

I don't think any of the current smart motorway schemes are taking into account the possibility of roads pricing and I suspect the technology currently approved for smart motorway use (such as HADECS3) wouldn't be appropriate.

The M3 smart motorway scheme between J2 and J4a is currently under construction and I have no doubt will feature several HADECS3 installations along its route.
This is a route I use regularly and being objective about it, I'm not unhappy with that as long they are active only when the variable speed limits are in place and set at a reasonable and realistic trigger speed.

The current 50 mph limit along there does seem to have eased congestion at peak times, so a properly managed smart motorway scheme would be an improvement at certain times of the day.

[havoc]

FurtiveFreddy said:

The M3 smart motorway scheme between J2 and J4a is currently under construction and I have no doubt will feature several HADECS3 installations along its route.
This is a route I use regularly and being objective about it, I'm not unhappy with that as long they are active only when the variable speed limits are in place and set at a reasonable and realistic trigger speed.

You may wish to read the early part of the thread - HADECS-3 has been set-up to operate at the NSL, irrespective of whether the overhead gantries are lit or not.

[mygoldfishbowl]

FurtiveFreddy said:

mygoldfishbowl said:

Unless I missed it he doesn't say what speed he received a nip for. He does say though that he is expecting a court summons, so that tells us he was doing at least 96.

It was in the title of the thread - 103mph from memory

[mygoldfishbowl]

havoc said:

You may wish to read the early part of the thread - HADECS-3 has been set-up to operate at the NSL, irrespective of whether the overhead gantries are lit or not.

No they have not.

I don't care what anyone believes but I do certainly dislike the scaremongering that is rife in the media & the internet at the moment.

There is not a strict enforced of the NSL.. End of, people can believe what they want.

[woof]

HADECS 3's are being rolled out across the English motorway network

http://metro.co.uk/2015/01/29/new-generation-of-st...
In construction:

M1 J32-J35A – South Yorkshire
• M1 J28-31 – Derbyshire into South Yorkshire
• Manchester Combined (M60 J8 – J12, M62 J18 – J20 & M60 J12 – J15)
• M1 J39-J42 – West Yorkshire
• M6 J10a – J13 – Midlands
• M3 J2 – J4a– South East

In planning:

• M6 J16 – J19
• M5 J4a – J6
• M1 J24 – J25
• M4 J3 – J12
• M1 J13 – J19
• M23 J8 – J10
• M60 J24 – J27
• M62 J10 – J12
• M6 J21a – J26
• M56 J6 – J8
• M6 J13 – J15
• M6 J2 – J4
• M27 J4 – J11
• M3 J9 – J14
• M20 J3 – J5

[FurtiveFreddy]

mygoldfishbowl said:

No they have not.

I don't care what anyone believes but I do certainly dislike the scaremongering that is rife in the media & the internet at the moment.

There is not a strict enforced of the NSL.. End of, people can believe what they want.

Cross purposes, perhaps?

I don't think any of us believe any HADECS cameras are set to trigger at 71 or even 79 and practical research (driving through them repeatedly at speeds above 79 for instance) proves this.

We're not going to get anyone to own up what speed they might be set to trigger when VSL is not in force, but we all have our own theories and we all take our own risks when it comes to 'pushing the envelope'. I still think most of the gantry mounted HADECS are not active other than when VSL is in place, although recently I have seen evidence to the contrary.

We know some if not all the HADECS3 units are active all the time,but we don't know what the trigger speeds are.

As I said above, I have no problem with HADECS of any type being active during VSLs as long as the limits are appropriate. However, HADECS which are active with no VSL displayed is something we should keeping our eye on as it can turn into a cash collection exercise if the limit is set too low or no account is taken of the time/conditions.

[George111]

FurtiveFreddy said:

As I said above, I have no problem with HADECS of any type being active during VSLs as long as the limits are appropriate.

I do. I was on the M25 yesterday evening and the variable speed limit was up and down all over the place. 40, then 50 then 60, then back to 50 then 40 then back to 60 . . . it's a scam to raise money, nothing more and anybody who supports this doesn't deserve a PH account.

[havoc]

mygoldfishbowl said:

havoc said:

You may wish to read the early part of the thread - HADECS-3 has been set-up to operate at the NSL, irrespective of whether the overhead gantries are lit or not.

No they have not.

I don't care what anyone believes but I do certainly dislike the scaremongering that is rife in the media & the internet at the moment.

There is not a strict enforced of the NSL.. End of, people can believe what they want.

I didn't mean they're set to snap people at 70, I meant they operate whether the gantries are on or off, so they could conceivably be set from 79mph upwards...which on a quiet M-way is IMHO both unnecessary and too slow.

I'm not scaremongering, I'm reporting their operating parameters...

[woof]

Travelling back on the M25 yesterday late afternoon.
Just past the M11 junction and the 60 boards came on - incident (or similar wording)
Slowed down. Came though the Bell common tunnel and those first set of Hadecs cameras were flashing like crazy - so many cars got done that couldn't have been doing more than 70mph (barely looked like they were going much faster than me) - everyone slams on their brakes.
The restriction carried on to Junc 26 and then finally the NSL came back on.

No incident - nothing in the road. No breakdowns ?!

[Carl_Docklands]

woof said:

Travelling back on the M25 yesterday late afternoon.
Just past the M11 junction and the 60 boards came on - incident (or similar wording)
Slowed down. Came though the Bell common tunnel and those first set of Hadecs cameras were flashing like crazy - so many cars got done that couldn't have been doing more than 70mph (barely looked like they were going much faster than me) - everyone slams on their brakes.
The restriction carried on to Junc 26 and then finally the NSL came back on.

No incident - nothing in the road. No breakdowns ?!

That one in particular is a faulty camera or one that is being calibrated.

[V8 Fettler]

M25 (northern section) highlights over the last couple of weeks include stationary traffic due to a swan in the road but no advance warning from signs, negotiated the swan and was then welcomed by several miles of temp speed limit reduction which petered out but no NSL showing. On a separate occasion: one off revolving info board showing lanes 1 and 2 closed, but no other signage and no hazard. Other sundry restrictions for no obvious reason. It's as if there is some sort of random fault.

[Blakewater]

woof said:

Travelling back on the M25 yesterday late afternoon.
Just past the M11 junction and the 60 boards came on - incident (or similar wording)
Slowed down. Came though the Bell common tunnel and those first set of Hadecs cameras were flashing like crazy - so many cars got done that couldn't have been doing more than 70mph (barely looked like they were going much faster than me) - everyone slams on their brakes.
The restriction carried on to Junc 26 and then finally the NSL came back on.

No incident - nothing in the road. No breakdowns ?!

People panic braking for the camera would have been the incident. That would have triggered a lower limit and even more panic braking created a downward spiral. The sort of thing that will probably lead to a genuine incident as people pile into each other in the tunnel.

[mygoldfishbowl]

havoc said:

I didn't mean they're set to snap people at 70, I meant they operate whether the gantries are on or off, so they could conceivably be set from 79mph upwards...which on a quiet M-way is IMHO both unnecessary and too slow.

I'm not scaremongering, I'm reporting their operating parameters...

I agree with you & understand you are not suggesting they enforce a strict 70 but a lot of people will read "they operate with the gantries on or off" & will think exactly that.

There are links earlier in this thread to media articles which state clearly that people are being caught out for a few mph over 70 which is at worst an outright lie or misleading at best. I don't think these misleading media articles are necessary or helpful.

[woof]

Again - saw several cars get done Junc 23 - 24 on the way up the hill.
1.30am - almost empty road. Limit down to 50Mph for roadworks that were a good mile up the road. Flash flash flash. £££

[mybrainhurts]

woof said:

Limit down to 50Mph for roadworks that were a good mile up the road.

This is why I detest "smart motorways".

It's possible to encounter several overnight roadworks and the lead in is often much more than a mile, and sometimes down to 40 with very few vehicles in sight.

Overcautious and unnecessary.

[anonymous-user]

mybrainhurts said:

woof said:

Limit down to 50Mph for roadworks that were a good mile up the road.

This is why I detest "smart motorways".

It's possible to encounter several overnight roadworks and the lead in is often much more than a mile, and sometimes down to 40 with very few vehicles in sight.

Overcautious and unnecessary.

Tell all dead roadworkers families that ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/94...
The story may be a bit old but is still relevant. Don't know your line of work but how many were killed or seriously injured whilst there last year ?

It takes about 45 secs to cover the mile at average 'quiet' motorway speeds is 45 seconds to react Overcautious and unnecessary?

Feckwit below was probably on the phone longer than that waiting for the auction to finish.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-30685581