HADECS 3 cameras on the M25

[Blakewater]

speedyguy said:

mybrainhurts said:

woof said:

Limit down to 50Mph for roadworks that were a good mile up the road.

This is why I detest "smart motorways".

It's possible to encounter several overnight roadworks and the lead in is often much more than a mile, and sometimes down to 40 with very few vehicles in sight.

Overcautious and unnecessary.

Tell all dead roadworkers families that ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/94...
The story may be a bit old but is still relevant. Don't know your line of work but how many were killed or seriously injured whilst there last year ?

It takes about 45 secs to cover the mile at average 'quiet' motorway speeds is 45 seconds to react Overcautious and unnecessary?

Feckwit below was probably on the phone longer than that waiting for the auction to finish.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-30685581

It's a fair point but neither of these drivers would have been picked up by speed cameras enforcing a 50mph limit. There are quite a few self centred idiots out there and people who don't pay attention and all enforcement being by speed cameras allows them to snooze or surf the Internet on their smartphones at the wheel with nothing to stop them. It boggles the mind that people would actually attack road workers as well but some people go through all aspects of their lives in a temper.

Also, the building of these smart motorway set ups are a classic example of miles of 50mph limits with average speed cameras and nothing going on for two or three years. This causes frustration and encourages non compliance.

[havoc]

speedyguy said:

mybrainhurts said:

woof said:

Limit down to 50Mph for roadworks that were a good mile up the road.

This is why I detest "smart motorways".

It's possible to encounter several overnight roadworks and the lead in is often much more than a mile, and sometimes down to 40 with very few vehicles in sight.

Overcautious and unnecessary.

Tell all dead roadworkers families that ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/94...
The story may be a bit old but is still relevant. Don't know your line of work but how many were killed or seriously injured whilst there last year ?

It takes about 45 secs to cover the mile at average 'quiet' motorway speeds is 45 seconds to react Overcautious and unnecessary?

Feckwit below was probably on the phone longer than that waiting for the auction to finish.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-30685581

Erm, that's DWDCAA, nothing to do with speed (55 in a 50, it would appear, which is to say nothing that a camera would spot), and nothing to do with putting cones and reduced limits out far too early, which was the point you're referring to*.

So what exactly is your argument? Or are you just using specious reasoning because you think we're all going to swallow it???



* A modern car can STOP from 70 in <<100yds, so even allowing for lethargic reaction distances there's NO need to put cones and limit reductions out any earlier than 200yds before the roadworks.

[TwoLeadFeet]

havoc said:

mygoldfishbowl said:

havoc said:

You may wish to read the early part of the thread - HADECS-3 has been set-up to operate at the NSL, irrespective of whether the overhead gantries are lit or not.

No they have not.

I don't care what anyone believes but I do certainly dislike the scaremongering that is rife in the media & the internet at the moment.

There is not a strict enforced of the NSL.. End of, people can believe what they want.

I didn't mean they're set to snap people at 70, I meant they operate whether the gantries are on or off, so they could conceivably be set from 79mph upwards...which on a quiet M-way is IMHO both unnecessary and too slow.

I'm not scaremongering, I'm reporting their operating parameters...

Received this from a national courier company, I was of the same view above that there would not be strict enforcement above 70, now I'm not so sure...but would be happy to be shot down in flames on this


"FYI. You may already be aware of this but if not, attached is a map of where the new ‘smart motorway’ cameras will be. These cameras are never switched off and are managed by a commercial company. They are set at 70 mph triggering an automatic fine for exceeding the speed limit, unlike the police who do not prosecute until 79 mph. The cameras face forwards and backwards on the motorway and are also used when the variable speed limit is activated calculating average speed between cameras."

Edited by TwoLeadFeet on Monday 16th February 19:57

[FurtiveFreddy]

TwoLeadFeet said:

Received this from a national courier company, I was of the same view above that there would not be strict enforcement above 70, now I'm not so sure...but would be happy to be shot down in flames on this


"FYI. You may already be aware of this but if not, attached is a map of where the new ‘smart motorway’ cameras will be. These cameras are never switched off and are managed by a commercial company. They are set at 70 mph triggering an automatic fine for exceeding the speed limit, unlike the police who do not prosecute until 79 mph. The cameras face forwards and backwards on the motorway and are also used when the variable speed limit is activated calculating average speed between cameras."

We have already established that HADECS3 installations are not, currently, set to trigger at any speed above 70 and if you read the consultation document I posted a lot earlier in the thread, the HA are well aware that they have to take public opinion into account when enforcing speed with this new technology.

What speed they are set to trigger at is being kept quiet, but my own opinion is that it's north of 85. This sort of FUD has a deterrent effect anyway. I already see plenty of drivers slowing down just before they get to a HADECS3 site and speeding up afterwards.

[covboy]

TwoLeadFeet said:

Received this from a national courier company, I was of the same view above that there would not be strict enforcement above 70, now I'm not so sure...but would be happy to be shot down in flames on this


"FYI. You may already be aware of this but if not, attached is a map of where the new ‘smart motorway’ cameras will be. These cameras are never switched off and are managed by a commercial company. They are set at 70 mph triggering an automatic fine for exceeding the speed limit, unlike the police who do not prosecute until 79 mph. The cameras face forwards and backwards on the motorway and are also used when the variable speed limit is activated calculating average speed between cameras."

Edited by TwoLeadFeet on Monday 16th February 19:57

Could they elaborate between “automatic fines “ and “police prosecution” I assumed all fines were generated/authorised by the police anyway, for speeding offences

By “commercial company” are they referring to The Highways Agency (or whatever they are calling themselves this week)

[FurtiveFreddy]

covboy said:

Could they elaborate between “automatic fines “ and “police prosecution” I assumed all fines were generated/authorised by the police anyway, for speeding offences

By “commercial company” are they referring to The Highways Agency (or whatever they are calling themselves this week)

I doubt they can, because it's FUD and that means we can't trust anything they say.

[speedking31]

TwoLeadFeet said:

Received this from a national courier company,

The cameras face forwards and backwards on the motorway and are also used when the variable speed limit is activated calculating average speed between cameras."

Surely these 2 points are wrong. They can't face backwards because they would be enforcing a limit before you reached the gantry where the limit starts. AFAIK they are not linked together to calculate average speed. How would that work if gantries at different spacings showed 60 / 50 / 50 / NSL? Drivers would never know what speed they should keep to avoid exceeding an average.

Looks like overcautious advice to ensure that their drivers pay attention and generally slower than necessary to be compliant with the law.

[covboy]

speedking31 said:

Looks like overcautious advice to ensure that their drivers pay attention and generally slower than necessary to be compliant with the law.

Courier Drivers? - Does not Compute!!

[emmaT2014]

FurtiveFreddy said:

TwoLeadFeet said:

Received this from a national courier company, I was of the same view above that there would not be strict enforcement above 70, now I'm not so sure...but would be happy to be shot down in flames on this


"FYI. You may already be aware of this but if not, attached is a map of where the new ‘smart motorway’ cameras will be. These cameras are never switched off and are managed by a commercial company. They are set at 70 mph triggering an automatic fine for exceeding the speed limit, unlike the police who do not prosecute until 79 mph. The cameras face forwards and backwards on the motorway and are also used when the variable speed limit is activated calculating average speed between cameras."

We have already established that HADECS3 installations are not, currently, set to trigger at any speed above 70 and if you read the consultation document I posted a lot earlier in the thread, the HA are well aware that they have to take public opinion into account when enforcing speed with this new technology.

What speed they are set to trigger at is being kept quiet, but my own opinion is that it's north of 85. This sort of FUD has a deterrent effect anyway. I already see plenty of drivers slowing down just before they get to a HADECS3 site and speeding up afterwards.

How have you established the trigger speeds? What you claim is wrong.

The HA don't need to take public opinion into account when setting speed enforcement thresholds because they don't set or have influence in the thresholds, the police do that.

You can get guidance on speed enforcement thresholds from ACPO, they have made them public since 2000.

The advice with the leaflet is also mostly fantasy. The cameras are operated by the police not a commercial company and fines are not automatic.

If you are prepared to state complete bollix as fact you do the readers here a disservice and you should consider ceasing that until you know what you are on about.

[Landshark]

TwoLeadFeet said:

Received this from a national courier company, I was of the same view above that there would not be strict enforcement above 70, now I'm not so sure...but would be happy to be shot down in flames on this


"FYI. You may already be aware of this but if not, attached is a map of where the new ‘smart motorway’ cameras will be. These cameras are never switched off and are managed by a commercial company. They are set at 70 mph triggering an automatic fine for exceeding the speed limit, unlike the police who do not prosecute until 79 mph. The cameras face forwards and backwards on the motorway and are also used when the variable speed limit is activated calculating average speed between cameras."

Edited by TwoLeadFeet on Monday 16th February 19:57

Did a journalist write this?? It's like a story you heard from a bloke down the pub!!

[TwoLeadFeet]

Landshark said:

Did a journalist write this?? It's like a story you heard from a bloke down the pub!!

It was an email forwarded to me, the originator works for a national courier company, I've no reason to believe it's a deliberate joke email being sent around.

[covboy]

TwoLeadFeet said:

It was an email forwarded to me, the originator works for a national courier company, I've no reason to believe it's a deliberate joke email being sent around.

Not a joke - Just Bo*****cs

[emmaT2014]

covboy said:

TwoLeadFeet said:

It was an email forwarded to me, the originator works for a national courier company, I've no reason to believe it's a deliberate joke email being sent around.

Not a joke - Just Bo*****cs

Courier companies have as much to do with the use of speed enforcement equipment as a bloke down the pub. The article in th email is complete fantasy and has no basis in fact. It may encourage courier drivers to drive in defiance of teh speed limit; it is an offence for companies to encourage drivers to do that. Perhaps they should be reported for that consideration.

[FurtiveFreddy]

emmaT2014 said:

How have you established the trigger speeds? What you claim is wrong.

The HA don't need to take public opinion into account when setting speed enforcement thresholds because they don't set or have influence in the thresholds, the police do that.

You can get guidance on speed enforcement thresholds from ACPO, they have made them public since 2000.

The advice with the leaflet is also mostly fantasy. The cameras are operated by the police not a commercial company and fines are not automatic.

If you are prepared to state complete bollix as fact you do the readers here a disservice and you should consider ceasing that until you know what you are on about.

Give it a rest 'Emma'. You enjoy spreading FUD as much as these chain emails do. But feel free to enlighten us as to how you know all the facts and what they are. I'm all ears

[emmaT2014]

FurtiveFreddy said:

Give it a rest 'Emma'. You enjoy spreading FUD as much as these chain emails do. But feel free to enlighten us as to how you know all the facts and what they are. I'm all ears

Your 85 trigger speed is by your own definition 'FUD', your listed occupation is perhaps an apt endorsement of your opinion.

[FurtiveFreddy]

emmaT2014 said:

Your 85 trigger speed is by your own definition 'FUD', your listed occupation is perhaps an apt endorsement of your opinion.

I clearly stated that was my opinion, not fact.

[emmaT2014]

FurtiveFreddy said:

emmaT2014 said:

Your 85 trigger speed is by your own definition 'FUD', your listed occupation is perhaps an apt endorsement of your opinion.

I clearly stated that was my opinion, not fact.

...and a further endorsement that your opinion, expressed here, is FUD

[mygoldfishbowl]

FurtiveFreddy said:

Give it a rest 'Emma'. You enjoy spreading FUD as much as these chain emails do. But feel free to enlighten us as to how you know all the facts and what they are. I'm all ears

Don't hold your breath.

[Landshark]

TwoLeadFeet said:

Landshark said:

Did a journalist write this?? It's like a story you heard from a bloke down the pub!!

It was an email forwarded to me, the originator works for a national courier company, I've no reason to believe it's a deliberate joke email being sent around.

I think the originator is confused, amongst other things, about the difference between SPECS and HADECS3, along with the mis information that they only appear on the new (not so) Smart motorways.

[Buzz84]

Recently noticed over the last couple of days that they seem to have erected additional bits of steelwork on both sides on one of the gantrys on the M25 between J10 and J11. They look like it is perfect for mounting a set of these cameras on.
If you are traveling clockwise past the A3 exit, they are on the second gantry you pass iirc