HADECS 3 cameras on the M25

HADECS 3 cameras on the M25

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mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
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robinessex said:
Being serious. My friends nephew is a motorway patrol office mostly on the M25. His experience is that the majority of accidents are when the free flowing (but mostly over the 70mph limit) traffic starts to build up as the rush hour approaches, and you get the 'slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up' effect kick in. That's when you get all the tail end shunts. So, in their infinite wisdom, what do the powers that be do? They stick up cameras that maybe will be active all the time, so the knowledgeable/alert driver will see them, lift off the gas to obey, whilst Mr Mumpty and his mates behind won't. Mr Mumpty 1 will brake, Mr Mumpty will brake harder, and Mr Mumpty 3 will not be able avoid hitting Mr Mumpty 2 up the bum. And then all hell is capable of being let loose. So we have an accident, that is totally avoidable if the traffic is allowed to flow freely, and not be subjected to a stupid, useless speed limit that is supposedly imposed on us for safety!!!
I'd love to know the identity of the faceless ones of the Department for (screwing up) Transport, who have long been probably the most inept control freaks in government.

Remember the one third lie about speed causing accidents? This was the turning point, when the Department turned sour and dishonest and clung on to the lie for several years as it was shown, time after time, to be a lie.

When I take over, I'll be confiscating their bicycles and making them walk.

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
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I used to drive regularly on the M25 and M23. I've not done so in the rush hour for probably years.

I came back from Byfleet today, leaving at a bit after 4.30, so getting onto the M25 around 4.50 then driving to Brighton.

I have to say that I found the advisory speed limits were adhered to more or less and this eased the flow of traffic. I was quite impressed. There were a few drivers who accelerated between gantries and this tended to slow the outside lane, which they were, almost universally, in whilst doing so.

Before, the advisory limits were, if anything, a danger as a few cars would slow to it and then others would keep at speed and would swerve around the slow ones causing all sorts of problems. I found the fact that drivers obeyed the limits in the main made it smoother and probably - although I accept this is subjective - faster.

That doesn't justify swingeing fines.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
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Derek Smith said:
I was quite impressed.
You might revise your opinion if you encounter a gantry suddenly firing off a 20mph limit in error.

Half the drivers knew there were no cameras on that gantry. The other half did not, and braked in panic, causing much swervery and brown trousers.

This was at 02.00 and no collisions occurred. It would have been a different story had the rush hour been building up.

s p a c e m a n

10,752 posts

147 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
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Um, there isn't normally much traffic going clockwise past J5 at 16.50, flows even better now that there are 4 lanes. If it wasn't for the silly random numbered circle game the traffic would have probably been flowing a lot quicker, I bet that it was running a lot faster before and after the 'managed motorway' section.


Landshark

2,117 posts

180 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
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robinessex said:
Very dirty rear number plate time then I think ....................

Being serious. My friends nephew is a motorway patrol office mostly on the M25. His experience is that the majority of accidents are when the free flowing (but mostly over the 70mph limit) traffic starts to build up as the rush hour approaches, and you get the 'slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up' effect kick in. That's when you get all the tail end shunts. So, in their infinite wisdom, what do the powers that be do? They stick up cameras that maybe will be active all the time, so the knowledgeable/alert driver will see them, lift off the gas to obey, whilst Mr Mumpty and his mates behind won't. Mr Mumpty 1 will brake, Mr Mumpty will brake harder, and Mr Mumpty 3 will not be able avoid hitting Mr Mumpty 2 up the bum. And then all hell is capable of being let loose. So we have an accident, that is totally avoidable if the traffic is allowed to flow freely, and not be subjected to a stupid, useless speed limit that is supposedly imposed on us for safety!!!............Ha

Edited by robinessex on Thursday 8th May 17:47
Collisions are caused by people not paying attention. Your friends nephew, if he works on the M25, will know that most collisions occur when the variable limit has no effect as the motorway is over capacity. The variable limit actually works when it's followed (and there's no glitches), but the motorway just can't handle the amount of vehicles on it. wink

robinessex

11,046 posts

180 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
quotequote all
Landshark said:
robinessex said:
Very dirty rear number plate time then I think ....................

Being serious. My friends nephew is a motorway patrol office mostly on the M25. His experience is that the majority of accidents are when the free flowing (but mostly over the 70mph limit) traffic starts to build up as the rush hour approaches, and you get the 'slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up' effect kick in. That's when you get all the tail end shunts. So, in their infinite wisdom, what do the powers that be do? They stick up cameras that maybe will be active all the time, so the knowledgeable/alert driver will see them, lift off the gas to obey, whilst Mr Mumpty and his mates behind won't. Mr Mumpty 1 will brake, Mr Mumpty will brake harder, and Mr Mumpty 3 will not be able avoid hitting Mr Mumpty 2 up the bum. And then all hell is capable of being let loose. So we have an accident, that is totally avoidable if the traffic is allowed to flow freely, and not be subjected to a stupid, useless speed limit that is supposedly imposed on us for safety!!!............Ha

Edited by robinessex on Thursday 8th May 17:47
Collisions are caused by people not paying attention. Your friends nephew, if he works on the M25, will know that most collisions occur when the variable limit has no effect as the motorway is over capacity. The variable limit actually works when it's followed (and there's no glitches), but the motorway just can't handle the amount of vehicles on it. wink
Scenario 1. No cameras, moderate traffic basicaly setting it's own speed, upto 80/85 ish. Fewish accidents, mostly caused by plling out without looking. Accident rate low.

Scenario 2. Heavy traffic, max if you're lucky 40 mph. Few accidents, mostly rear end bumps.

Scenario 3. Going from 1 above to 2. The horible fast,slow,fast,slow,fast,slow shunting you get. This when the big tailenders happen. And staticticaly most accidents occur.

Therefore, the last thing you need, because drivers do not pay attention, is another totally unneccesary reason to cause traffic to slow. It's safer to let it flow feely, even if it is over the totally unrealastic speed limit. It's been seen many times, if a bump happens at the front of a large convoy of cars, a huge multiple shunt usualy occurs.

As an aside, I've driven the Heathrow section regularly since the variable speed limit came into use, and it's bloody useless.

robinessex

11,046 posts

180 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
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LordFlathead said:
It uses radar.

It can be jammed.
No it can't

Davidonly

1,080 posts

192 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
quotequote all
robinessex said:
LordFlathead said:
It uses radar.

It can be jammed.
No it can't
yes it can

Landshark

2,117 posts

180 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
quotequote all
robinessex said:
Scenario 1. No cameras, moderate traffic basicaly setting it's own speed, upto 80/85 ish. Fewish accidents, mostly caused by plling out without looking. Accident rate low.

Scenario 2. Heavy traffic, max if you're lucky 40 mph. Few accidents, mostly rear end bumps.

Scenario 3. Going from 1 above to 2. The horible fast,slow,fast,slow,fast,slow shunting you get. This when the big tailenders happen. And staticticaly most accidents occur.

Therefore, the last thing you need, because drivers do not pay attention, is another totally unneccesary reason to cause traffic to slow. It's safer to let it flow feely, even if it is over the totally unrealastic speed limit. It's been seen many times, if a bump happens at the front of a large convoy of cars, a huge multiple shunt usualy occurs.

As an aside, I've driven the Heathrow section regularly since the variable speed limit came into use, and it's bloody useless.
Okay, you know best.......


By the way I do what your nephew does on the M25 section that you regularly drive on. wink

Geekman

2,863 posts

145 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
quotequote all
robinessex said:
No it can't
Whether it can or not doesn't really matter - the fact that it can be detected is the important thing tongue out

Landshark

2,117 posts

180 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
quotequote all
Landshark said:
Okay, you know best.......


By the way I do what your nephew does on the M25 section that you regularly drive on. wink
Sorry, friends nephew.

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
quotequote all
robinessex said:
Scenario 1. No cameras, moderate traffic basicaly setting it's own speed, upto 80/85 ish. Fewish accidents, mostly caused by plling out without looking. Accident rate low.

Scenario 2. Heavy traffic, max if you're lucky 40 mph. Few accidents, mostly rear end bumps.

Scenario 3. Going from 1 above to 2. The horible fast,slow,fast,slow,fast,slow shunting you get. This when the big tailenders happen. And staticticaly most accidents occur.
A bit verbose, but you've just made the case for variable speed limits and managed motorways. I don't suppose that's what you intended.

By the way, what does 'free flowing traffic' mean? Free flowing into a 40mph queue at 85mph?

meteorgt2

81 posts

141 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
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So are these an average speed camera like the yellow ones found in roadworks on motorways or are they like the standard fixed speed cameras?

mygoldfishbowl

3,691 posts

142 months

Thursday 8th May 2014
quotequote all
meteorgt2 said:
So are these an average speed camera like the yellow ones found in roadworks on motorways or are they like the standard fixed speed cameras?
One of the previously posted links.. http://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?New...

robinessex

11,046 posts

180 months

Friday 9th May 2014
quotequote all
trashbat said:
robinessex said:
Scenario 1. No cameras, moderate traffic basicaly setting it's own speed, upto 80/85 ish. Fewish accidents, mostly caused by plling out without looking. Accident rate low.

Scenario 2. Heavy traffic, max if you're lucky 40 mph. Few accidents, mostly rear end bumps.

Scenario 3. Going from 1 above to 2. The horible fast,slow,fast,slow,fast,slow shunting you get. This when the big tailenders happen. And staticticaly most accidents occur.
A bit verbose, but you've just made the case for variable speed limits and managed motorways. I don't suppose that's what you intended.


By the way, what does 'free flowing traffic' mean? Free flowing into a 40mph queue at 85mph?
No I haven't. Scenario 1. Safe As most motorways are if you leave them to seetle down. Scenario 2. Safe, but bloody boring. Scenario 3. Dangerous, and not what a variable speed limit produces.


Didn't use the phrase 'free flowing traffic'........Free flowing into a 40mph queue at 85mph??????....Lost me there.....

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Friday 9th May 2014
quotequote all
robinessex said:
No I haven't. Scenario 1. Safe As most motorways are if you leave them to seetle down. Scenario 2. Safe, but bloody boring. Scenario 3. Dangerous, and not what a variable speed limit produces.


Didn't use the phrase 'free flowing traffic'........Free flowing into a 40mph queue at 85mph??????....Lost me there.....
Your argument is apparently based around the idea that every section of unmanaged motorway is either all scenario 1 or all scenario 2. Well, sorry, but that's nonsense.

A queue forms at a junction or an accident happens, and the forward traffic slows quickly but the traffic further back does not, so some of them spot brake lights too late and crash into each other. Your scenario 3 is the natural order. You can see it in action on motorways like the M27 every day.

Variable speed limits try and gently slow the traffic so they arrive at the queue at a reduced speed. You seem to have cause and effect backwards.

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Friday 30th May 2014
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If this becomes wide spread over the motorway network, I'll be sticking to the A-Roads.

Andehh

7,107 posts

205 months

Friday 30th May 2014
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TPS said:
And look at all the cars in lane 2,3,4 but not using lane 1.
Being the M25 I presumed everyone used the outside 2 lanes only? The 2 inside lanes are no-man's-land, where no one but those in 40 tonne metal monsters dare enter for fear of punishments worse then death! Shirley!?

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Friday 30th May 2014
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Andehh said:
TPS said:
And look at all the cars in lane 2,3,4 but not using lane 1.
Being the M25 I presumed everyone used the outside 2 lanes only? The 2 inside lanes are no-man's-land, where no one but those in 40 tonne metal monsters dare enter for fear of punishments worse then death! Shirley!?
Nah, lane 1 is the lane to make progress now...smile

jelley1970

47 posts

221 months

Friday 30th May 2014
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Not hijacking, but does anyone know if the cameras on the M25 anti clock just past the A10 are live, i've seen them flash a few times when i've been going the other way?

are people getting tickets??

Cheers

Jells