HADECS 3 cameras on the M25
Discussion
Landshark said:
ashleyman said:
Are these above the gantries for variable speed?
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
The ones I mentioned are the HADECS 3 which sit on the side of the gantry. Between 9/8 are some HADECS 2 still, they are fairly easy to spot as there is no signage on top of the gantry so the camera boxes stick out the top by some way. When the gantries change limits, it does give some leeway (a couple of seconds) before the cameras activate.I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
You may have found that although you got the 50 then the NSL, ones you had already passed may have been also switched on to 50s?
ashleyman said:
Landshark said:
ashleyman said:
Are these above the gantries for variable speed?
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
The ones I mentioned are the HADECS 3 which sit on the side of the gantry. Between 9/8 are some HADECS 2 still, they are fairly easy to spot as there is no signage on top of the gantry so the camera boxes stick out the top by some way. When the gantries change limits, it does give some leeway (a couple of seconds) before the cameras activate.I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
You may have found that although you got the 50 then the NSL, ones you had already passed may have been also switched on to 50s?
Landshark said:
tapereel said:
There is a delay of 60 seconds between a speed limit change and enforcement starting.
I think it varies a little depending where you are (not by much though)Why do you say it varies because it doesn't?
Landshark said:
The ones between J10 and J11 have been there ages and replace the HADECs 2 (now complete with their yellow jackets). The new ones are between J10 and J9. Neither seem to work at the moment!!!
The ones between J10 & 11 light up my detector in both directions, so I'm assuming they're active. The ones between 9 and 10 aren't.Is that what you meant?
ashleyman said:
Are these above the gantries for variable speed?
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
Interesting question, because I got captured late last year under similar circumstances and got a ticket which I am convinced I should never have had!I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
Section of M25 around the 'Northern loop' coming back anticlockwise from Purfleet to M40, I passed maybe a dozen variable signs at 60-60-60-60 for mile after mile; cruise set to GPS 60 but still passing lots of other traffic.
As I approached a gantry - perhaps 20-30 yards away - the sign flickered and changed to 50. I killed the cruise to allow speed to bleed off to 50, went under the gantry at 59 but a car in lane 4 rattled past at 75-80mph triggering the HADECS camera at the side of the road. I saw it flash, but just thought "They've got you, pal!" and continued on my way.
The NIP landed 10 days later citing 59 in a 50; I am convinced that I was unfairly captured in the same frame of the camera as the speeder in lane 4 who triggered the camera at the OLD limit of 60, but the CCTV showed 50, not 60 of course.
I elected for a SAC as it was only £80 and no points as I had no easy way of proving that the system had caught me unfairly without gambling way more than the cost of the course.
tapereel said:
There is a delay of 60 seconds between a speed limit change and enforcement starting.
Our SAC course tutor told us 30 seconds, or one gantry - i.e next gantry is 'live' at that speed.
littleredrooster said:
ashleyman said:
Are these above the gantries for variable speed?
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
Interesting question, because I got captured late last year under similar circumstances and got a ticket which I am convinced I should never have had!I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
Section of M25 around the 'Northern loop' coming back anticlockwise from Purfleet to M40, I passed maybe a dozen variable signs at 60-60-60-60 for mile after mile; cruise set to GPS 60 but still passing lots of other traffic.
As I approached a gantry - perhaps 20-30 yards away - the sign flickered and changed to 50. I killed the cruise to allow speed to bleed off to 50, went under the gantry at 59 but a car in lane 4 rattled past at 75-80mph triggering the HADECS camera at the side of the road. I saw it flash, but just thought "They've got you, pal!" and continued on my way.
The NIP landed 10 days later citing 59 in a 50; I am convinced that I was unfairly captured in the same frame of the camera as the speeder in lane 4 who triggered the camera at the OLD limit of 60, but the CCTV showed 50, not 60 of course.
I elected for a SAC as it was only £80 and no points as I had no easy way of proving that the system had caught me unfairly without gambling way more than the cost of the course.
tapereel said:
There is a delay of 60 seconds between a speed limit change and enforcement starting.
Our SAC course tutor told us 30 seconds, or one gantry - i.e next gantry is 'live' at that speed.The instructors on the courses have no inside knowledge of the cameras or their operation and arrangements. So the instructor that said the delay was 30 seconds is wrong.
littleredrooster said:
ashleyman said:
Are these above the gantries for variable speed?
I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
Interesting question, because I got captured late last year under similar circumstances and got a ticket which I am convinced I should never have had!I went through one that was inactive at 70 on the GPS - all good. The next was lit up at 50, I didn't see it illuminated until I was right on top of it ( I think it had only just lit up) and managed to cut the speed down to 54 on the GPS, 52 on the speedo, but the next one was the NSL sign. Traffic was clear, this one gantry was just illuminating 50.
If I'd gone through that at 70 would I have got a ticket? The lit gantry was between junction 9 & 8 clockwise.
Section of M25 around the 'Northern loop' coming back anticlockwise from Purfleet to M40, I passed maybe a dozen variable signs at 60-60-60-60 for mile after mile; cruise set to GPS 60 but still passing lots of other traffic.
As I approached a gantry - perhaps 20-30 yards away - the sign flickered and changed to 50. I killed the cruise to allow speed to bleed off to 50, went under the gantry at 59 but a car in lane 4 rattled past at 75-80mph triggering the HADECS camera at the side of the road. I saw it flash, but just thought "They've got you, pal!" and continued on my way.
The NIP landed 10 days later citing 59 in a 50; I am convinced that I was unfairly captured in the same frame of the camera as the speeder in lane 4 who triggered the camera at the OLD limit of 60, but the CCTV showed 50, not 60 of course.
I elected for a SAC as it was only £80 and no points as I had no easy way of proving that the system had caught me unfairly without gambling way more than the cost of the course.
tapereel said:
There is a delay of 60 seconds between a speed limit change and enforcement starting.
Our SAC course tutor told us 30 seconds, or one gantry - i.e next gantry is 'live' at that speed.The CCTV is just a defense against people contesting the NIPs.
Edited by Blakewater on Saturday 22 October 20:52
Here you go girls:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
5.9 Variable speed limits
5.9.1 When used to enforce variable speed limits, the speedmeter shall provide separately an adjustable enforcement threshold for each speed limit that can be displayed and for the National Speed Limit when no speed limit is displayed. The speedmeter shall automatically select the correct enforcement threshold depending on the speed limit displayed or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed.
5.9.2 The speedmeter shall enforce the displayed speed limit (or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed) only when:
i all the speed limit signs connected to it are correctly displaying the same speed limit, except when the hard shoulder of a motorway is actively managed and that lane may show either the same speed limit or a red X;
and ii the speed limit has been displayed for one minute or longer. This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes.
The speedmeter shall not enforce speed in the actively managed hard shoulder when the red X is displayed. It shall operate with, and only with, all speed limit signs mounted on the same gantry, facing in the same direction and over the same carriageway, and every one of these signs fully operational.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
5.9 Variable speed limits
5.9.1 When used to enforce variable speed limits, the speedmeter shall provide separately an adjustable enforcement threshold for each speed limit that can be displayed and for the National Speed Limit when no speed limit is displayed. The speedmeter shall automatically select the correct enforcement threshold depending on the speed limit displayed or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed.
5.9.2 The speedmeter shall enforce the displayed speed limit (or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed) only when:
i all the speed limit signs connected to it are correctly displaying the same speed limit, except when the hard shoulder of a motorway is actively managed and that lane may show either the same speed limit or a red X;
and ii the speed limit has been displayed for one minute or longer. This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes.
The speedmeter shall not enforce speed in the actively managed hard shoulder when the red X is displayed. It shall operate with, and only with, all speed limit signs mounted on the same gantry, facing in the same direction and over the same carriageway, and every one of these signs fully operational.
tapereel said:
Here you go girls:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
5.9 Variable speed limits
5.9.1 When used to enforce variable speed limits, the speedmeter shall provide separately an adjustable enforcement threshold for each speed limit that can be displayed and for the National Speed Limit when no speed limit is displayed. The speedmeter shall automatically select the correct enforcement threshold depending on the speed limit displayed or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed.
5.9.2 The speedmeter shall enforce the displayed speed limit (or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed) only when:
i all the speed limit signs connected to it are correctly displaying the same speed limit, except when the hard shoulder of a motorway is actively managed and that lane may show either the same speed limit or a red X;
and ii the speed limit has been displayed for one minute or longer. This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes.
The speedmeter shall not enforce speed in the actively managed hard shoulder when the red X is displayed. It shall operate with, and only with, all speed limit signs mounted on the same gantry, facing in the same direction and over the same carriageway, and every one of these signs fully operational.
What does it mean by, "This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes?"https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
5.9 Variable speed limits
5.9.1 When used to enforce variable speed limits, the speedmeter shall provide separately an adjustable enforcement threshold for each speed limit that can be displayed and for the National Speed Limit when no speed limit is displayed. The speedmeter shall automatically select the correct enforcement threshold depending on the speed limit displayed or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed.
5.9.2 The speedmeter shall enforce the displayed speed limit (or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed) only when:
i all the speed limit signs connected to it are correctly displaying the same speed limit, except when the hard shoulder of a motorway is actively managed and that lane may show either the same speed limit or a red X;
and ii the speed limit has been displayed for one minute or longer. This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes.
The speedmeter shall not enforce speed in the actively managed hard shoulder when the red X is displayed. It shall operate with, and only with, all speed limit signs mounted on the same gantry, facing in the same direction and over the same carriageway, and every one of these signs fully operational.
That the delay can be five minutes or more?
tapereel said:
The record from the speed camera has the time since the limit changed on it and the shortest time is 60 seconds.
The instructors on the courses have no inside knowledge of the cameras or their operation and arrangements. So the instructor that said the delay was 30 seconds is wrong.
In which case I can only put it down to human error somewhere because I definitely saw it change as I was almost underneath it. The instructors on the courses have no inside knowledge of the cameras or their operation and arrangements. So the instructor that said the delay was 30 seconds is wrong.
Both course instructors were recently-retired TrafPol.
Just to add - I drive c.65,000 miles per year and have had a clean licence for 45 years despite regularly hooning about on large-capacity bikes. I am anal about not being caught!
Blakewater said:
tapereel said:
Here you go girls:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
5.9 Variable speed limits
5.9.1 When used to enforce variable speed limits, the speedmeter shall provide separately an adjustable enforcement threshold for each speed limit that can be displayed and for the National Speed Limit when no speed limit is displayed. The speedmeter shall automatically select the correct enforcement threshold depending on the speed limit displayed or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed.
5.9.2 The speedmeter shall enforce the displayed speed limit (or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed) only when:
i all the speed limit signs connected to it are correctly displaying the same speed limit, except when the hard shoulder of a motorway is actively managed and that lane may show either the same speed limit or a red X;
and ii the speed limit has been displayed for one minute or longer. This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes.
The speedmeter shall not enforce speed in the actively managed hard shoulder when the red X is displayed. It shall operate with, and only with, all speed limit signs mounted on the same gantry, facing in the same direction and over the same carriageway, and every one of these signs fully operational.
What does it mean by, "This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes?"https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
5.9 Variable speed limits
5.9.1 When used to enforce variable speed limits, the speedmeter shall provide separately an adjustable enforcement threshold for each speed limit that can be displayed and for the National Speed Limit when no speed limit is displayed. The speedmeter shall automatically select the correct enforcement threshold depending on the speed limit displayed or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed.
5.9.2 The speedmeter shall enforce the displayed speed limit (or the National Speed Limit when none is displayed) only when:
i all the speed limit signs connected to it are correctly displaying the same speed limit, except when the hard shoulder of a motorway is actively managed and that lane may show either the same speed limit or a red X;
and ii the speed limit has been displayed for one minute or longer. This delay shall be variable to at least five minutes.
The speedmeter shall not enforce speed in the actively managed hard shoulder when the red X is displayed. It shall operate with, and only with, all speed limit signs mounted on the same gantry, facing in the same direction and over the same carriageway, and every one of these signs fully operational.
That the delay can be five minutes or more?
The delay can be any value between 1 minute up to a maximum of 5 minutes.
littleredrooster said:
tapereel said:
The record from the speed camera has the time since the limit changed on it and the shortest time is 60 seconds.
The instructors on the courses have no inside knowledge of the cameras or their operation and arrangements. So the instructor that said the delay was 30 seconds is wrong.
In which case I can only put it down to human error somewhere because I definitely saw it change as I was almost underneath it. The instructors on the courses have no inside knowledge of the cameras or their operation and arrangements. So the instructor that said the delay was 30 seconds is wrong.
Both course instructors were recently-retired TrafPol.
Just to add - I drive c.65,000 miles per year and have had a clean licence for 45 years despite regularly hooning about on large-capacity bikes. I am anal about not being caught!
If the 50 limit hadn't been displayed for a minimum of 60 seconds the camera couldn't have operated at that limit.
PoleDriver said:
littleredrooster said:
Explanation please - where does 'social media' enter into anything?
Most people know this but:-Social media
noun
"websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking."
tapereel said:
That's nice for them but traffic police don't operate the cameras and generally don't know all of the parameters of automatic cameras.
If the 50 limit hadn't been displayed for a minimum of 60 seconds the camera couldn't have operated at that limit.
It could when a car in lane 4 went past it at more than the previously displayed limit. That's the basis of my gripe!If the 50 limit hadn't been displayed for a minimum of 60 seconds the camera couldn't have operated at that limit.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff