HADECS 3 cameras on the M25
Discussion
cmaguire said:
tapereel said:
If you pass within 60 seconds of he change the HADECS camera will be disabled.
An amusing idea, but much as it would amuse me the niggling doubt that the cameras would default to NSL enforcement during the delay would stop me trying it.tapereel said:
A semblance of wisdom perhaps.
The wisdom scale would be extended upwards if we were rid of your insidious and parasitic industry for good, the industry described to me by a traffic officer as a cash trap and the industry that snared a lady acquaintance of advanced years as she made the first mistake of her driving career by a few mph at a time when her husband was just about to die of cancer.You and your ilk have a lot to answer for.
speedking31 said:
Yellow is still not that visible if hidden behind a tree! Selective foliage management observed in several locations.
My other observation is that they are mounted quite low, so a stream of HGVs in lane 1 will offer quite good cover
If you want to see the enforcement camera it indicates that you do not intend to observe the lawful maximum that is indicated to you.My other observation is that they are mounted quite low, so a stream of HGVs in lane 1 will offer quite good cover
Let's say that there was a requirement to have red flashing beacons on every gantry that has a live and enforcing camera. You would slow to the limit or less when you saw this. You would of course speed up when you pass that location to a speed that may be above the limit.
No red flashing beacon and you can ignore the speed limits all of the time.
Great! What purpose would that serve?
Making some speed enforcement systems conspicuous served to make their use well known. What it should do now is to remind drivers enforcement is being carried out but also that more enforcement that is not so obvious or indeed is completely covert is also being carried out.
A mixture of covert and overt enforcement will serve to make most drivers tend to comply with the lawful maximum speed.
The use of overt systems only will cause drivers to manipulate or completely ignore the limits.
The previous gantry mounted cameras were not painted yellow, nor was their presence or absence indicated in any other way. They were difficult to spot until you were virtually on them. Why the change of policy to make their replacements more visible?
I have a fundamental difficulty with points being dished out for contravention of a congestion management limit which has very little effect on safety. No doubt the numbers will be published soon to show how managed motorways have affected accident rates. I wait with interest.
I have a fundamental difficulty with points being dished out for contravention of a congestion management limit which has very little effect on safety. No doubt the numbers will be published soon to show how managed motorways have affected accident rates. I wait with interest.
tapereel said:
If you want to see the enforcement camera it indicates that you do not intend to observe the lawful maximum that is indicated to you.
Let's say that there was a requirement to have red flashing beacons on every gantry that has a live and enforcing camera. You would slow to the limit or less when you saw this. You would of course speed up when you pass that location to a speed that may be above the limit.
No red flashing beacon and you can ignore the speed limits all of the time.
Great! What purpose would that serve?
Making some speed enforcement systems conspicuous served to make their use well known. What it should do now is to remind drivers enforcement is being carried out but also that more enforcement that is not so obvious or indeed is completely covert is also being carried out.
A mixture of covert and overt enforcement will serve to make most drivers tend to comply with the lawful maximum speed.
The use of overt systems only will cause drivers to manipulate or completely ignore the limits.
You are right, that is exactly what I would do on the Motorways.Let's say that there was a requirement to have red flashing beacons on every gantry that has a live and enforcing camera. You would slow to the limit or less when you saw this. You would of course speed up when you pass that location to a speed that may be above the limit.
No red flashing beacon and you can ignore the speed limits all of the time.
Great! What purpose would that serve?
Making some speed enforcement systems conspicuous served to make their use well known. What it should do now is to remind drivers enforcement is being carried out but also that more enforcement that is not so obvious or indeed is completely covert is also being carried out.
A mixture of covert and overt enforcement will serve to make most drivers tend to comply with the lawful maximum speed.
The use of overt systems only will cause drivers to manipulate or completely ignore the limits.
Because the limits are on the whole unrealistically slow. 70 was bad, but the way things are going now is madness.
speedking31 said:
The previous gantry mounted cameras were not painted yellow, nor was their presence or absence indicated in any other way. They were difficult to spot until you were virtually on them. Why the change of policy to make their replacements more visible?
I have a fundamental difficulty with points being dished out for contravention of a congestion management limit which has very little effect on safety. No doubt the numbers will be published soon to show how managed motorways have affected accident rates. I wait with interest.
The purpose of making the cameras yellow is obvious.I have a fundamental difficulty with points being dished out for contravention of a congestion management limit which has very little effect on safety. No doubt the numbers will be published soon to show how managed motorways have affected accident rates. I wait with interest.
What is your prediction for the effect of managed motorways on accident and injury rates?
tapereel said:
The purpose of making the cameras yellow is obvious.
What is your prediction for the effect of managed motorways on accident and injury rates?
That would depend on exactly who is telling me what effect has been seen.What is your prediction for the effect of managed motorways on accident and injury rates?
And the balance between any changes in accident and injury rates versus the pain in the butt inconvenience of those managed Motorways.
tapereel said:
speedking31 said:
The previous gantry mounted cameras were not painted yellow, nor was their presence or absence indicated in any other way. They were difficult to spot until you were virtually on them. Why the change of policy to make their replacements more visible?
I have a fundamental difficulty with points being dished out for contravention of a congestion management limit which has very little effect on safety. No doubt the numbers will be published soon to show how managed motorways have affected accident rates. I wait with interest.
The purpose of making the cameras yellow is obvious.I have a fundamental difficulty with points being dished out for contravention of a congestion management limit which has very little effect on safety. No doubt the numbers will be published soon to show how managed motorways have affected accident rates. I wait with interest.
What is your prediction for the effect of managed motorways on accident and injury rates?
ks re the ACTUAL traffic flow, I'll never ever believe any supposed claim that they actually work,robinessex said:
Having been through1000's of gantry speed limits that are complete bks re the ACTUAL traffic flow, I'll never ever believe any supposed claim that they actually work,
Near enough all the inexplicable holdups or bashed-up/broken down vehicles with or without the company of HA Discoveries or Police seem to be on the Managed sections of the M25 whilst reduced limits are operating.ks re the ACTUAL traffic flow, I'll never ever believe any supposed claim that they actually work,No doubt some will assert that the restrictions are due to those incidents rather than contributory to them, but the worst stretch from the M4 to the A1 appears to suffer from reduced limits regardless so it would be a surprise if any incidents were able to occur outside of them between 6am and 10pm.
robinessex said:
Having been through1000's of gantry speed limits that are complete bks re the ACTUAL traffic flow, I'll never ever believe any supposed claim that they actually work,
I agree - its my experience let alone instinct too.ks re the ACTUAL traffic flow, I'll never ever believe any supposed claim that they actually work,Many agree and are lashing out here: https://www.facebook.com/gwentpolice/posts/1015458...
speedking31 said:
tapereel said:
The purpose of making the cameras yellow is obvious.
What's not obvious is the difference between HADECS3 and the previous gantry mounted cameras. Why were the gantry mounted cameras not yellow?You can't see them as you approach so the colour is irellevant.
Ken Figenus said:
I agree - its my experience let alone instinct too.
Many agree and are lashing out here: https://www.facebook.com/gwentpolice/posts/1015458...
Police statuses on social media, at least as far as I can see, tend to get a broadly positive response comments wise apart from the occasional one or two police haters, probably because the kind of person who follows the police on social media is likely to support them as a whole. I know I'm hoping for far too much here, but surely it's logical that they might look at the overwhelmingly negative response to that particular post and think "hmm, maybe these variable limits aren't such a good idea?". The only other alternative is to assume that the followers of police pages are all reckless drivers and habitual speeders, which can be disproved by the fact that most of the other police posts regarding law enforcement are widely supported.Many agree and are lashing out here: https://www.facebook.com/gwentpolice/posts/1015458...
In any other area of life, if you implement a solution which is almost universally hated by its users, it would be quickly withdrawn, sadly it doesn't seem to be the case with variable speed limits.
I was travelling south on the M1 on Wednesday night. It was just where the M18 joins and the normal 50 restriction ends.
The next gantry after the roadworks was set to 40mph and there was no obvious reason, my brain had registered 50 but luckily clocked it at the last moment.
It flashed 4 other cars in the few hundred meters I could see the gantry.
Very easily done.
The next gantry after the roadworks was set to 40mph and there was no obvious reason, my brain had registered 50 but luckily clocked it at the last moment.
It flashed 4 other cars in the few hundred meters I could see the gantry.
Very easily done.
Geekman said:
Police statuses on social media, at least as far as I can see, tend to get a broadly positive response comments wise apart from the occasional one or two police haters, probably because the kind of person who follows the police on social media is likely to support them as a whole. I know I'm hoping for far too much here, but surely it's logical that they might look at the overwhelmingly negative response to that particular post and think "hmm, maybe these variable limits aren't such a good idea?". The only other alternative is to assume that the followers of police pages are all reckless drivers and habitual speeders, which can be disproved by the fact that most of the other police posts regarding law enforcement are widely supported.
In any other area of life, if you implement a solution which is almost universally hated by its users, it would be quickly withdrawn, sadly it doesn't seem to be the case with variable speed limits.
Well said - I think 95% of the comments there are from ordinary decent motorist there - not petrolheads or police haters. It would be amazing to think that they took some notice of that as getting that kind of frustrated but unanimous reaction is quite unusual. Here's wishing...In any other area of life, if you implement a solution which is almost universally hated by its users, it would be quickly withdrawn, sadly it doesn't seem to be the case with variable speed limits.
robinessex said:
Having been through1000's of gantry speed limits that are complete bks re the ACTUAL traffic flow, I'll never ever believe any supposed claim that they actually work,
7 Times this week I have come from the A10 to the M11 when, surprise surprise, the gantry just before the 1st camera has a 50 limit, with incident...no incident, and funnily enough, just as you go through the tunnel before the M11 where there are no more cameras, the incident has disappeared. ks re the ACTUAL traffic flow, I'll never ever believe any supposed claim that they actually work,It did feel really safe though...
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