The Police and lost, lost property!
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
From what has been said, it would appear that the bicycle was stolen property, not lost.
Nobody has reported it stolen. It would therefore appear to be 'found' property.Derek Smith said:
If the OP feels there has been dishonesty on behalf of the police then a complaint would appear one way of dealing. However, from what has beens aid, the value is what has driven the post and I would suggest that finding stolen property does not automatically mean the property reverts to the finder.
I would suggest that in the absence of a more valid claim it should be his rather than an alleged auction (the funds going to whom?) about which he, as an interested party, wasn't even told.julian64 said:
Derek Smith said:
From what has been said, it would appear that the bicycle was stolen property, not lost. In two forces I was in stolen property is not returned but is, instead, auctioned. Obviously I do not know the procedures in the area in question.
If the OP feels there has been dishonesty on behalf of the police then a complaint would appear one way of dealing. However, from what has beens aid, the value is what has driven the post and I would suggest that finding stolen property does not automatically mean the property reverts to the finder.
No even as, if in the ops case, it has been left on his property?If the OP feels there has been dishonesty on behalf of the police then a complaint would appear one way of dealing. However, from what has beens aid, the value is what has driven the post and I would suggest that finding stolen property does not automatically mean the property reverts to the finder.
My wife found a quantity of stripped off items from motorcycles. As I was building a Triton at the time I took them into a police station and handed them in as found property. The police officer stated there and then that they would be treated as stolen property so would not be returned to me. That's a third police force (Kent) that treats stolen property differently from lost property. I was also told that if no evidence was found on them (fingerprints I assume) they would be auctioned and it was policy not to notify the finder of the date.
Flipping it on its head, if the police arrived and I said "can I keep it if the owner cannot be identified?" and they said no. If I then said "well you're not taking it then" would they have had valid grounds to seize it as evidence? Further if it had not been linked to any crime, would it have been returned to me?
Rovinghawk said:
Derek Smith said:
From what has been said, it would appear that the bicycle was stolen property, not lost.
Nobody has reported it stolen. It would therefore appear to be 'found' property.Derek Smith said:
If the OP feels there has been dishonesty on behalf of the police then a complaint would appear one way of dealing. However, from what has beens aid, the value is what has driven the post and I would suggest that finding stolen property does not automatically mean the property reverts to the finder.
I would suggest that in the absence of a more valid claim it should be his rather than an alleged auction (the funds going to whom?) about which he, as an interested party, wasn't even told.Derek Smith said:
There's a bank raid. Offenders are chased. They throw some of the money over a hedge into your garden.
My wife found a quantity of stripped off items from motorcycles. As I was building a Triton at the time I took them into a police station and handed them in as found property. The police officer stated there and then that they would be treated as stolen property so would not be returned to me. That's a third police force (Kent) that treats stolen property differently from lost property. I was also told that if no evidence was found on them (fingerprints I assume) they would be auctioned and it was policy not to notify the finder of the date.
My father (hampshire) rented a house to a chap who had an Austen A7 parked out the front. Chap left owing a reasonable amount but left the car behind on the front lawn under a tarp. Thing was tatty but functional, if you didn't count the missing floorboards.My wife found a quantity of stripped off items from motorcycles. As I was building a Triton at the time I took them into a police station and handed them in as found property. The police officer stated there and then that they would be treated as stolen property so would not be returned to me. That's a third police force (Kent) that treats stolen property differently from lost property. I was also told that if no evidence was found on them (fingerprints I assume) they would be auctioned and it was policy not to notify the finder of the date.
Two months went by and my father went to the police station to complain. They told him to write a letter to the chaps last known forwarding address, or failing that take an advert out in the paper. If no one claimed the car in two weeks it was his. My father did this, and when nothing came of it he had the car trailored to his own address. About six months later two policeman arrived one evening handcuffed my sixty year old dad and took him to the police station.
Turns out said chap had reported the car stolen by my father. Quite how long the chap expected to leave the car on the front lawn never really did get settled. My father spent the night at the police station as far as I remember and came home the next day to say the car was his. Apparently the police hadn't been too impressed by mateys story, and had effectively told him the car was my fathers unless he wanted to take out a civil case. We never heard from him again, transfered the car into my fathers name and eventually sold it after doing it up.
the initial advice from the police was denied by the police officer on when the allegation of theft was made, and subsequently confirmed the next day presumably when luckily the police officer in question turned up for work.
But even then it seemed they all had different ideas of what was proceedure.
julian64 said:
I don't think the op should have the bike. Sorry op.
Seems a bit obvious to me that the pheasant rules should apply.
Other than that who's to say this isn't the new way for criminals to legalise their gains?
Yes but this isn't about half-arsed opinion. It is about the law and the law says that the bike belongs to the OP.Seems a bit obvious to me that the pheasant rules should apply.
Other than that who's to say this isn't the new way for criminals to legalise their gains?
On the other hand, there is a reasonably new push bike hidden in the bushes behind the fence at my local station car park.
I have phoned the Police twice now to report it, but nobody has been to collect it.
Probably because it is not easily accessible from the car park.
I have no idea if it is an expensive one, or not. but I do know that someone is probably missing their bike.
I have phoned the Police twice now to report it, but nobody has been to collect it.
Probably because it is not easily accessible from the car park.
I have no idea if it is an expensive one, or not. but I do know that someone is probably missing their bike.
XCP said:
The fact that it was hidden may suggest it was stolen.
Probably rather than certainly, but it was definitely 'found'.XCP said:
Proceeds from auctioned goods go to charity (or they did in my force).
1) Was the auction nice & public or did it have a more 'exclusive' audience? Nobody knows in this case.2) Who decides which charity, if indeed any such exists in this case? If it were eg for less-fortunate ex-officers then it would smell fishy compared to eg Oxfam.
What is certain is that the OP was told something other than what actually transpired (ie he was lied to). More information might help remove some of the taint.
Where I'm from Police don't take possession of property from private premises/property unless there is a suspicion it's stolen etc.
They only take possession of found property if it's found in public places. They don't have to take 'physical possession' for found property though, it can be retained by the finder (if they wish) with instructions to keep it until a suitable time has passed when ownership will pass to them. There are however certain items that they wouldn't be permitted to retain (or take ownership of when the required time has passed) in such circumstances, such as keys etc.
Unclaimed property dependant on type of property/value will be sold at public auction or destroyed.
They only take possession of found property if it's found in public places. They don't have to take 'physical possession' for found property though, it can be retained by the finder (if they wish) with instructions to keep it until a suitable time has passed when ownership will pass to them. There are however certain items that they wouldn't be permitted to retain (or take ownership of when the required time has passed) in such circumstances, such as keys etc.
Unclaimed property dependant on type of property/value will be sold at public auction or destroyed.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 29th April 17:39
CoolHands said:
what company was the security sticker please?
I did take a photo of it but I think I have deleted it now. It went through to a Scottish chap, I think the company was also based in Scotland if that helps narrow it down? The guy didn't really sound that interested in it however!GC8 said:
Derek Smith said:
GC8 said:
Yes but this isn't about half-arsed opinion. It is about the law and the law says that the bike belongs to the OP.
And what law would that be then?Seems we have someone trying to 'claim' for the loss of something that wasn't his. Whatever the 'law' is, how sad does one have to be to sink to that?
REALIST123 said:
Perhaps, but, as he said, what law would that be?
Seems we have someone trying to 'claim' for the loss of something that wasn't his. Whatever the 'law' is, how sad does one have to be to sink to that?
I will dig out the relevant legislation tomorrow but short of anyone else saying it is theirs I have more right to deal with it than anyone else!Seems we have someone trying to 'claim' for the loss of something that wasn't his. Whatever the 'law' is, how sad does one have to be to sink to that?
Derek Smith said:
From what has been said, it would appear that the bicycle was stolen property, not lost. In two forces I was in stolen property is not returned but is, instead, auctioned. Obviously I do not know the procedures in the area in question.
If the OP feels there has been dishonesty on behalf of the police then a complaint would appear one way of dealing. However, from what has beens aid, the value is what has driven the post and I would suggest that finding stolen property does not automatically mean the property reverts to the finder.
If the property has been reunited with it's owner that would be right and proper but surely it should be reported to the person who handed it in? At the very least it protects the police from false accusations or bad feeling.If the OP feels there has been dishonesty on behalf of the police then a complaint would appear one way of dealing. However, from what has beens aid, the value is what has driven the post and I would suggest that finding stolen property does not automatically mean the property reverts to the finder.
Askthe.police.uk
Quote
Q245. I have found some property, what should I do.
You should liaise with your local police station. It maybe that you want to hold onto the property on the understanding that if the owner comes forward you must relinquish it or you can hand it in at your local police station.
If you choose to hand it in then you will be given a form that entitles you to collect the property if it is not claimed within 28 days (except mobile phones and any other unsuitable objects).
Quote
Q245. I have found some property, what should I do.
You should liaise with your local police station. It maybe that you want to hold onto the property on the understanding that if the owner comes forward you must relinquish it or you can hand it in at your local police station.
If you choose to hand it in then you will be given a form that entitles you to collect the property if it is not claimed within 28 days (except mobile phones and any other unsuitable objects).
Rovinghawk said:
1) Was the auction nice & public or did it have a more 'exclusive' audience? Nobody knows in this case.
2) Who decides which charity, if indeed any such exists in this case? If it were eg for less-fortunate ex-officers then it would smell fishy compared to eg Oxfam.
What is certain is that the OP was told something other than what actually transpired (ie he was lied to). More information might help remove some of the taint.
Police property auctions are very public. I have mentioned them before on this forum as a way of obtaining a bicycle.2) Who decides which charity, if indeed any such exists in this case? If it were eg for less-fortunate ex-officers then it would smell fishy compared to eg Oxfam.
What is certain is that the OP was told something other than what actually transpired (ie he was lied to). More information might help remove some of the taint.
I can only speak for how monies were distributed in my force but dozens of different charities benefited every year. Each district/dept was invited to nominate worthy causes in their area. A very senior officer makes the final decision. One year I nominated our local branch of Mencap, for example. The idea that it gets diverted to some kind of slush fund for police officers is frankly, ridiculous.
None of this is secret, in fact, our force used to publicise the good work they were doing very widely. Accounts were published annually. All in accordance with the Police Property Act.
I also used to approach the Detained property staff and obtained a very nice stereo for a youth club on my patch that would otherwise have been destroyed. Not to mention dozens of free Santa hats that had been seized in an operation.
You seem to be suggesting some kind of corruption that in my fairly extensive experience does not exist.
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