Guess what - used car purchase problem. Help?

Guess what - used car purchase problem. Help?

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anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
I'll try to cover all the points people usually ask in threads like these in one hit, apologies if I miss anything.

Long story short, wifey has bought herself a 2007 Pug 207 GTi. 34k miles, full pug history, one private owner, very nice condition. Paid five grand. Picked the car up 22/03/14.

The day after she bought it the EML lit and the car displayed a "De-pollution system fault" message. I know this is a common problem on this car and it can have various causes, some innocuous and some downright engine-destroying so I don't need advice on that thanks smile

We gave it a couple of days in case the light cleared and then contacted the dealer.
At the first attempt (28/03/14) they sent it to their indie who cleared the code and just gave the car back. The warning came back after a few days.
At the second attempt about a week later the indie diagnosed a bad lambda sensor and replaced it, cleared the codes, fault came back after a few days.
At the third attempt (14/04/14) the indie takes it back stating it might need the other lambda sensor replacing, but it turns out they're stumped. They end up sending it to a Pug main dealer but the indie it was originally at had cleared the codes so Peugeot couldn't find anything and have done nothing except a diagnostic check and a road test where the EML didn't come back on again. They had the car for three weeks in total.

Guess what? EML came back on again today.

It's an hour each way to get to the supplying dealer and although they've said they will take it back again to get the fault fixed and supply a courtesy car my wife is at the end of her tether with it and wants rid. The last time we collected the car my wife did ask if they would take the car back if the warning came on and got a flat refusal - "we'd never take a car back".

Do we have any legal grounds for rejection under SOGA? Personally I think not (or at least not without one hell of a fight) because the car still runs and drives, it's very annoying but not exactly rare to have a fault on a seven year old used car and the selling dealer is being as helpful as they can be. My wife has had enough of it and wants rid so I thought I'd put it out there for any of our resident legal beagles to hopefully give me a steer. If we have to give the dealer another crack at repairing it then so be it.

Thanks,
John

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 10th May 11:29

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
Your view appears to me balanced and sensible. This does not sound to me like a rejection issue.

PS: Stuff like this is one of the many reasons why all cars designed after approx 1995 are rubbish.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
Thanks very much BV, that's what I thought but being able to say I've had a 2nd opinion from someone who knows their stuff will definitely help calm the frayed nerves - I'm sure you get the picture smile

calibrax

4,788 posts

210 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
charltjr said:
Do we have any legal grounds for rejection under SOGA? Personally I think not (or at least not without one hell of a fight) because the car still runs and drives
If the car won't pass the MOT, then it's not fit for purpose and can be rejected under SOGA. Engine management light is an MOT failure now (since mid February). You've given them ample opportunity to fix it, so you are compliant with the requirements of SOGA.


anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
OP, you probably won't need me to tell you that you can file that last reply under "Internet amateur lawyer rubbish". Ignore.

calibrax

4,788 posts

210 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
OP, you probably won't need me to tell you that you can file that last reply under "Internet amateur lawyer rubbish". Ignore.
So please enlighten me, how is the car fit for purpose when it will not pass an MOT test, and why can he not reject it, having given the dealer several attempts to rectify the problem, and it is less than 6 months since the car was purchased? confused

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
calibrax said:
So please enlighten me, how is the car fit for purpose when it will not pass an MOT test, and why can he not reject it, having given the dealer several attempts to rectify the problem, and it is less than 6 months since the car was purchased? confused
7 year old French car in electrical problem, shocker.

ging84

8,831 posts

145 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
PS: Stuff like this is one of the many reasons why all cars designed after approx 1995 are rubbish.
does that attitude come with a pipe slippers ?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
Totes!

The fault is fixable. Reject a seven year old car over something that is a matter of footling about with some computer bollix? Good luck with that! The OP is being sensible.

Spangles

1,441 posts

184 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
calibrax said:
charltjr said:
Do we have any legal grounds for rejection under SOGA? Personally I think not (or at least not without one hell of a fight) because the car still runs and drives
If the car won't pass the MOT, then it's not fit for purpose and can be rejected under SOGA. Engine management light is an MOT failure now (since mid February). You've given them ample opportunity to fix it, so you are compliant with the requirements of SOGA.
Others have pointed out your legal advice is broken, I shall point out that your MOT advice is broken as well, EML on is not now, nor has it ever been, an MOT failure. Spelling seems fine though.

calibrax

4,788 posts

210 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
The fault is fixable.
Yet, despite the best efforts of the garage on three separate occasions and several weeks in possession of the vehicle, it is still not fixed. Everything is fixable given enough time and money, but how long does the OP have to put up with this massive inconvenience in the meantime?

Breadvan72 said:
Reject a seven year old car over something that is a matter of footling about with some computer bollix? Good luck with that! The OP is being sensible.
The problem seems to be more than just "computer bollix". Changing the sensor did not make any difference; so could it not be that the sensor is reporting an ACTUAL engine issue, and emissions ARE out of the normal range due to a physical engine and/or cat malfunction?

Spangles said:
Others have pointed out your legal advice is broken, I shall point out that your MOT advice is broken as well, EML on is not now, nor has it ever been, an MOT failure. Spelling seems fine though.
Apologies, I was under the impression that they brought that requirement in with the DPF and cat visual checks in February, so I'll hold my hand up to that being wrong. But if the emissions are out, then it will still fail the MOT. Your spelling is fine too smile

leefee

633 posts

128 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
Nothing helpfull to add other than. Op, you sound like exactly
the type of customer who should be loooked after. Nice to hear someone able to look at the situation rationally.
Hope it all pans out well. Dont suppose it has blocked drains in bulkhead does it? i had one with random electrical issues and water damaged ecu was the culprit, its posible just cos its a peugeot though. smile

Spangles

1,441 posts

184 months

Saturday 10th May 2014
quotequote all
calibrax said:
Apologies, I was under the impression that they brought that requirement in with the DPF and cat visual checks in February, so I'll hold my hand up to that being wrong. But if the emissions are out, then it will still fail the MOT. Your spelling is fine too smile
Thanks biggrin


anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 11th May 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the comments all.

To be fair to them the selling dealer have been really good, they sold the car with a warranty through a third party that doesn't cover diagnostic charges, pretty standard stuff. When we first called them about the fault and said we didn't want to pay to have the fault diagnosed because it happened pretty much immediately they were on- side straight away.

They've never once quibbled about having the car back and have been apologetic about the fault the whole way through. At the end of the day they're in the hands of the garage they ask to fix the problem just as much as we would be.

I strongly suspect the previous owner had the codes cleared and then traded it in as it always seems to take about 100 to 150 miles for the fault to show up. I wish I still had my obd reader as I bet if I check the live data the fuel trims are constantly adapting until they go out of range and throw the fault code..... Could be something poxy like an air leak, could be something horrific like high pressure fuel pump failure or the timing is gradually drifting out of whack (design fault on this engine)

It's a shame because it's a cracking little car, it's got the octane pack on it which gives brilliant wing-backed recaro-style seats and it's a hoot to drive.

I'm hoping we can get it in to our local pug dealer and get them to bill the selling dealer direct.

I'll update once it's sorted, threads which just stop without a resolution are annoying wink

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 11th May 2014
quotequote all
More Internet Book of Pub Law mythery YOLO!

The law does not operate in such absolute terms. All depends on the facts. The position with something shiney new is not the same with something scruffy old.

Pentoman

4,814 posts

262 months

Sunday 11th May 2014
quotequote all
This is the Mini Cooper S engine isn't it, so I'm guessing it's all pretty much identical systems/ECU etc.

OBD readers about £15 on ebay if you're interested.

wombleh

1,778 posts

121 months

Sunday 11th May 2014
quotequote all
Some Pug dealers don't have the best reputation for mechanical prowess, I would look for a better indie myself with some diagnostic skills and get them to have a look. With any luck it'll be a relatively cheap fix then everyones happy.

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Monday 12th May 2014
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Buy a code reader, as little as £18.

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Monday 12th May 2014
quotequote all
Why is a £20 code reader bought from fleabay going to be better than the diagnostic equipment in garages?

Snowboy

8,028 posts

150 months

Monday 12th May 2014
quotequote all
Legally - I don't think you can reject it and force them into a refund.

However, I can understand why the wife would want to if she's lost confidence in the car.
You could raise the question with the dealer and ask if they could swap the car for something else on their forecourt, if not a full refund.

It's not so much a legal demand, but more of a discussion between customer and dealer.