Appeal declined - ticket for unloading in loading bay?!
Discussion
mph1977 said:
Hol said:
There's no high horse, just because I have no sympathy for people lose at Russian roulette.
They took a risk, and they lost.
In terms of cost for a civil servant...
£35,000 for annual salary
half that for the average EO post outside London, 35 k is for graduate / professionally qualified managers or where a ring fenced Police COnstable is part of a team They took a risk, and they lost.
In terms of cost for a civil servant...
£35,000 for annual salary
Hol said:
£7,000 for pension contribution. (Min)
see above assuming the role is eligible for the LGPS final salary scheme [quote]
£5,000 for premises, rent, office infrastructure etc.
Hol said:
£x,000 for sick leave and holiday/pointless union training courses
[/quote}
leave and sickness is included in the the salary figure given above, unless you are freferring to the ratre occaisions where a member of staff on long term sickness is removed from establishment before their few months of OSP is exhausted ( certainly in the NHS and as I understand it most of the public sector apart from the military - anyone on sick leave for over a year is getting paid NOTHING by the employer just ESA - as SSP entitlement will have been exhusted 6 months after the full pay OSP period ends )
training is incorporated into the staffing calculations for establishment setting , but then again it's generally also the same in the private sector and sometimes considerably more generous as desirable (to professional development) training can be accessed using the study leave budget rather than essential to service training that fits into the 2- 3 % of total hours allocated to training .
so come back when you have a clue rather than pulling figures out your arse
Oh yeah, like I have ever promoted those figures as being anything official and anything than a rough estimate.[/quote}
leave and sickness is included in the the salary figure given above, unless you are freferring to the ratre occaisions where a member of staff on long term sickness is removed from establishment before their few months of OSP is exhausted ( certainly in the NHS and as I understand it most of the public sector apart from the military - anyone on sick leave for over a year is getting paid NOTHING by the employer just ESA - as SSP entitlement will have been exhusted 6 months after the full pay OSP period ends )
training is incorporated into the staffing calculations for establishment setting , but then again it's generally also the same in the private sector and sometimes considerably more generous as desirable (to professional development) training can be accessed using the study leave budget rather than essential to service training that fits into the 2- 3 % of total hours allocated to training .
so come back when you have a clue rather than pulling figures out your arse
Especially the x (zero) pounds that I' did NOT add to any figures
Well done anyway! You deserve the undue praise.
Be a sport and tell us how much one of these cases cost the taxpayer will you.?.
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 15:47
motoroller said:
Hol said:
The road outside that station is double reds, apart from the loading by outside some shops.
The sign says, (outside the CO OP)
RED ROUTE
No Stopping at Any Time
Except
Loading Max 20mins
(Logo of a man with a sack barrow)
It's not a huge leap of faith to think, that maybe you are not supposed to drop off passengers?
It's also something that could be included as part of the driving test....
https://www.learnerdriving.com/learn-to-drive/high...
The OP was unlucky to get caught. But as ai said in an earlier really.
It's a lesson learnt.
If we want to be pedantic about it, technically the road markings there should be red, not white, based on your link. The sign says, (outside the CO OP)
RED ROUTE
No Stopping at Any Time
Except
Loading Max 20mins
(Logo of a man with a sack barrow)
It's not a huge leap of faith to think, that maybe you are not supposed to drop off passengers?
It's also something that could be included as part of the driving test....
https://www.learnerdriving.com/learn-to-drive/high...
The OP was unlucky to get caught. But as ai said in an earlier really.
It's a lesson learnt.
Google Maps shows it to clearly be marked in white
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.491887,-0.192498...
The road markings are inconsistent with the sign.
But having looked at the road view, I would guess the TRUE offence on the notification was stopping in a red zone and NOT simply stopping in an everyday normal loading zone.
[b]To summarise - where we are on this thread....
Yours and others view is that any similar crime itself is not relevant - but the amount of time that the crime was taken to commit should be applied pro-rata to the fine applied.
My personal view is that the cost of administering the crime should not be born by Jo Public instead of the perp.
Also, that the size of the fine should act a deterrent to stop people from being repetitive offenders abusing the good intention and clogging our roads.
MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 15:42
Hol said:
<snip>
MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
sarcasm so becomes you hol ... MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 15:42
the problem is when people start spouting around the kind of rubbish that often gets spouted on PH about Public sector pay and TaCoS it makes discussion impossible ...
especially the stuff aobut study leave, sick pay (fortunately absent) incremental progression - despite the fact incremental progression SAVES money by being able to pay people less than the going rate for the job for a number of years ...
mph1977 said:
Hol said:
<snip>
MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
sarcasm so becomes you hol ... MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 15:42
the problem is when people start spouting around the kind of rubbish that often gets spouted on PH about Public sector pay and TaCoS it makes discussion impossible ...
especially the stuff aobut study leave, sick pay (fortunately absent) incremental progression - despite the fact incremental progression SAVES money by being able to pay people less than the going rate for the job for a number of years ...
Give us your best guess +\- a tolerance.
What is involved in investigating each one of these cases, how many people, how long and how many get authorised as a fine?
To provide a comparison, I did some work looking at the cost of complaint cases for financial firms a few years back, and the true cost per hour was just under £100.(irrespective of the value of the complaint).
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 16:04
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 16:06
Hol said:
But having looked at the road view, I would guess the TRUE offence on the notification was stopping in a red zone and NOT simply stopping in an everyday normal loading zone.
[b]To summarise - where we are on this thread....
Yours and others view is that any similar crime itself is not relevant - but the amount of time that the crime was taken to commit should be applied pro-rata to the fine applied.
My personal view is that the cost of administering the crime should not be born by Jo Public instead of the perp.
Also, that the size of the fine should act a deterrent to stop people from being repetitive offenders abusing the good intention and clogging our roads.
MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
I did not stop in a red zone. Let's make that clear - I stopped in a white dashed box.[b]To summarise - where we are on this thread....
Yours and others view is that any similar crime itself is not relevant - but the amount of time that the crime was taken to commit should be applied pro-rata to the fine applied.
My personal view is that the cost of administering the crime should not be born by Jo Public instead of the perp.
Also, that the size of the fine should act a deterrent to stop people from being repetitive offenders abusing the good intention and clogging our roads.
MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 15:42
Also, nowhere so far have you mentioned that you're talking about the review process rather than the initial ticket. We're not talking about the cost of the appeal, we're talking about the cost of issuing the ticket in the first place, as the majority of people would just pay the fine.
motoroller said:
Hol said:
But having looked at the road view, I would guess the TRUE offence on the notification was stopping in a red zone and NOT simply stopping in an everyday normal loading zone.
[b]To summarise - where we are on this thread....
Yours and others view is that any similar crime itself is not relevant - but the amount of time that the crime was taken to commit should be applied pro-rata to the fine applied.
My personal view is that the cost of administering the crime should not be born by Jo Public instead of the perp.
Also, that the size of the fine should act a deterrent to stop people from being repetitive offenders abusing the good intention and clogging our roads.
MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
I did not stop in a red zone. Let's make that clear - I stopped in a white dashed box.[b]To summarise - where we are on this thread....
Yours and others view is that any similar crime itself is not relevant - but the amount of time that the crime was taken to commit should be applied pro-rata to the fine applied.
My personal view is that the cost of administering the crime should not be born by Jo Public instead of the perp.
Also, that the size of the fine should act a deterrent to stop people from being repetitive offenders abusing the good intention and clogging our roads.
MPH1977 is an international expert on the civil service and will be along shortly to provide some official estimates and statistics so that we can have an accurate debate on exactly what the true cost is. (Finger and thumb permitting).[/b]
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 15:42
Also, nowhere so far have you mentioned that you're talking about the review process rather than the initial ticket. We're not talking about the cost of the appeal, we're talking about the cost of issuing the ticket in the first place, as the majority of people would just pay the fine.
Also, my entire original argument was just that I think people are loosing patience with other people who deliberately ignore the rules..........what followed was a succession of responses from people go off on complete tangents - but still quoting me.
Are you sure re the red zone bit???
Because of one of those innate tangents/questions, I had a look at google street level to answer the question I was given.
If you parked outside of the Co Op, then that entire stretch of road looks to be red zone as the signage is red bordered.
If it was somewhere else, then it might be different.
Wherever it was, I will be honest and say that I am not really that interested, as it has nothing to do with my original point.
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 16:52
OP - you may wish to read this - same loading bay location although back in 2010;
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=5304...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
Not sure if you have any recourse to re-appeal though.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=5304...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
Not sure if you have any recourse to re-appeal though.
Hol said:
Why would or should I comment on the appeal process - that has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I have written about the prospective administration and cost of issuing a ticket (which was in answer to a challenge directed at me personally)
Also, my entire original argument was just that I think people are loosing patience with other people who deliberately ignore the rules..........what followed was a succession of responses from people go off on complete tangents - but still quoting me.
Are you sure re the red zone bit???
Because of one of those innate tangents/questions, I had a look at google street level to answer the question I was given.
If you parked outside of the Co Op, then that entire stretch of road looks to be red zone as the signage is red bordered.
If it was somewhere else, then it might be different.
Wherever it was, I will be honest and say that I am not really that interested, as it has nothing to do with my original point.
Not sure why I'm still wasting the time talking to you here.Also, my entire original argument was just that I think people are loosing patience with other people who deliberately ignore the rules..........what followed was a succession of responses from people go off on complete tangents - but still quoting me.
Are you sure re the red zone bit???
Because of one of those innate tangents/questions, I had a look at google street level to answer the question I was given.
If you parked outside of the Co Op, then that entire stretch of road looks to be red zone as the signage is red bordered.
If it was somewhere else, then it might be different.
Wherever it was, I will be honest and say that I am not really that interested, as it has nothing to do with my original point.
Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 16:52
I AM SURE THAT I DID NOT STOP ON THE RED ROUTE. I STOPPED IN THE WHITE BOX FOR 90 seconds.
djstevec said:
OP - you may wish to read this - same loading bay location although back in 2010;
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=5304...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
Not sure if you have any recourse to re-appeal though.
Thanks for these links. I will have to contact TFL somehow, and bring this up. The van was on hire, so that's probably why they didn't show goodwill.http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=5304...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&...
Not sure if you have any recourse to re-appeal though.
Edited by motoroller on Tuesday 26th August 17:40
Hol said:
supermono said:
Hol said:
But, you realize that the fine is used to offset the cost of the enforcement team having to exist?
"realize"... Being American you don't know that our UK councils make vast sums of money fleecing people like the OP for doing absolutely nothing contrary to the sense of the restriction. Unfortunately though our country is awash with complete morons who are quick to support them, the same morons support the wholesale industrial scale speeding tickets from camera vans believing it makes the roads safer. You are also mistaken about the money funding "enforcement teams" (gimps I like to call them), whilst they have employed vast numbers of faceless gimps to run the extortion costing loads I'm sure together with installing all the video equipment for them to hide behind, the money they rake in yields vast profits hence the minister (lawmaker) wanting to put a stop to the whole miserable business.
supermono said:
Sorry the American spelling threw me. There were two types mentioned in my post, you must be the other.
Not used to people having an opinion different to your own? I bet your workplace is like kindergarten, with you being the older bully.
And for the record (and it is matter of record on PH) I feckin hate speed cameras.
So your assert action is bulls
t - just like your childish comment.Edited by Hol on Tuesday 26th August 18:39
Too many people on this thread who just want to see the world burn for me to want to be on here any longer.
Apart from the bizarre sideline questions and unanswered points around how much it costs the public purse to enforce non speeding type fines, my opinion has not been swayed by any proof on here.
That is..(if you care to read my original comments).
That the vast majority of people read signs bad don't break the rules.
That parking and road safety violation type fines should act a deterrent to people breaking the law.
That the majority who do park considerately and never get fined should not have to fund those that do not.
That tax money is much better spent on looking after the needy, than it is looking after the inconsiderate.
That I am not talking about speed cameras (ever).
I hope that is clear and all there baiting and bullst can now stop.
Apart from the bizarre sideline questions and unanswered points around how much it costs the public purse to enforce non speeding type fines, my opinion has not been swayed by any proof on here.
That is..(if you care to read my original comments).
That the vast majority of people read signs bad don't break the rules.
That parking and road safety violation type fines should act a deterrent to people breaking the law.
That the majority who do park considerately and never get fined should not have to fund those that do not.
That tax money is much better spent on looking after the needy, than it is looking after the inconsiderate.
That I am not talking about speed cameras (ever).
I hope that is clear and all there baiting and bulls
t can now stop.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff