What's the worst that could happen....uninsured biker..

[E24man]

tenpenceshort said:

If the car driver's driving is suspected to have fallen below that expected of a careful and competent driver he can and should be reported for the relevant offence. He shouldn't and doesn't get off purely on the principle that another person involved is also suspected of driving badly.

Yes, I get that; but if the car drivers driving isn't found to be below the expected standard and he subsequently avoids any charges or prosecutions regarding his driving then how would a potential civil case on behalf of the (now dead) motorcyclist try to proceed against the car driver and his insurance company?

Would the absence of any charges or prosecution against the car driver severely hinder any potential civil case (from the family of the deceased motorcyclist) against the car driver

For example the motorcyclist might have been the sole breadwinner for the family and they might now be left on the mercy of the state; should he have had insurance then they might have some legal muscle to try and press a case against the car driver and the car driver's insurance company, but as he was uninsured that muscle won't be there to attempt a prosecution, will it?

[tenpenceshort]

It wouldn't necessarily hinder a civil case. Civil courts can still decide you were negligent, even if it wasn't sufficiently negligent to warrant a criminal offence. Also bear in mind the standard of proof in civil court is balance of probabilities rather than the beyond reasonable doubt in criminal court. This means a criminal court could acquit you of wrongdoing but a civil one find you responsible, as the criminal court would have to be sure you were guilty, whereas the civil one only that it was more likely than not that you were.

[creampuff]

dave_s13 said:

Just to update this thread.

The biker involved died last week following complications related to recovering from his injuries. 35yo, 2 kids...poor bugger.

I'm quite sorry to hear that.

From a roadcraft perspective, many bikers are fond of filtering past standing traffic on a single carriageway quite close to that standing traffic. Perhaps this is because they feel like they are kind-of-sort-of towards the left hand side of the road so it is comfort road positioning. Should a vehicle decide to do a U-turn without checking, then the close proximity to the traffic means there is really not much time at all to do anything.

Assuming the oncoming traffic lane is clear, then that whole lane is available to you to use. I generally prefer to keep to the right of that lane to give me more time in case of a U-turner. I generally also keep my speed to around 20mph. The penalty is that keeping to the right of the offside (oncoming traffic) lane means you are less visible in mirrors, for those vehicles that do do a mirror check prior to U-turning.

[E24man]

Filtering bikes will always be a contentious issue; from a car's perspective it appears inherently dangerous, from a motorcyclists perhaps less so but the amount of incidents should mark it down as dangerous and IMHO any filtering past standing cars at over 10mph is leaving you with little or no reaction time and stopping distance should a vehicle inadvertently move.

Thanks for the advice ref the criminal and civil hypothesis.

[V8 Fettler]

The U-turn into a filtering biker generally occurs because the incompetent car driver doesn't "lifesave" over the shoulder before manoeuvring.

[speedking31]

For the car driver there is a conflict between keeping well to the left to facilitate the U-turn, but then being a couple of feet inside the line of the offside of the vehicle behind, making it very difficult to see anything overtaking the queue, even with a lifesaver.

[Nigel Worc's]

Very very sad.

I so dislike filtering / lane splitting.

[creampuff]

speedking31 said:

For the car driver there is a conflict between keeping well to the left to facilitate the U-turn, but then being a couple of feet inside the line of the offside of the vehicle behind, making it very difficult to see anything overtaking the queue, even with a lifesaver.

This is solved by doing everything slowly and indicating for several seconds to allow anything coming to see you.....

Snap U-turns without looking properly are dangerous. Anything could be coming... pushbikes, motorbikes, pedestrians crossing the road, emergency vehicles overtaking, other motor cars overtaking to turn right at the next junction, other motor cars overtaking to get into a parking spot on the offside....

The number of things to crash in to if proper observations are not made is in no way limited to motorbikes.

[V8 Fettler]

speedking31 said:

For the car driver there is a conflict between keeping well to the left to facilitate the U-turn, but then being a couple of feet inside the line of the offside of the vehicle behind, making it very difficult to see anything overtaking the queue, even with a lifesaver.

Don't do the U-turn then. Or is this part of the growing trend of "I can't see anything, so it must be OK"?

[Nigel Worc's]

V8 Fettler said:

Don't do the U-turn then. Or is this part of the growing trend of "I can't see anything, so it must be OK"?

If you haven't been seen, you haven't been seen, if you're out of position, which filtering is, all you can do is to do it very slowly.

I've not noticed motorcycles, & cyclists, usually a consequence of blind spots combined with speed.

What do you do, sit looking into space ?

I'd imagine it is very rare that fellow road users injure another on purpose.

[V8 Fettler]

Nigel Worc's said:

V8 Fettler said:

Don't do the U-turn then. Or is this part of the growing trend of "I can't see anything, so it must be OK"?

If you haven't been seen, you haven't been seen, if you're out of position, which filtering is, all you can do is to do it very slowly.

I've not noticed motorcycles, & cyclists, usually a consequence of blind spots combined with speed.

What do you do, sit looking into space ?

I'd imagine it is very rare that fellow road users injure another on purpose.

If I want to do a U-turn and it is safe (and legal - pedant alert) to do so, then I'll do a U-turn. It's the turning of the head thing that many people find impossible, witness idiots drifting across m/way lanes into other vehicles.

Out of position? I use the whole road if safe and legal to do so. Is that not permitted?