"What has happened to our police force?"
Discussion
If the police are indeed detested then it just shows how good the current lot are at their job. That does seem to have been their intent.
There seems to be this belief that the police in the 'good old days' were trusted and never made mistakes. And officers always acted with the best interests of the public at heart.
Yet the truth is that the current officers make up the best police force England/Wales has ever had, well not since the attack from Cameron and the massive reduction in funding, but even then, from a value for money basis, it has probably improved.
Even marionette May referred to an incident 25 years ago to show how bad the current police force is. OK, so she was acting under orders, of her campaign manager as much as Cameron, but we should remember that these are historic to say the least. Much is still made of the Lawrence murder but if you believe the conclusions of the enquiry then you really shouldn't be allowed scissors. And that reached its majority some time ago.
The point is that 'what has happened to our police force' is that, over the last 30 years, it has become more answerable than any other in the western world, it was cheaper than most per person policed, and that was before Cameron became vindictive after his draft of the Sheehy report was largely derided. The individual officers are more more hard-working that someone of my era would have believed.
Yet they are the least supervised ever. There are far too few sergeants out there. Sooner or later this will tell.
And on top of that anyone with any sense or knowledge would prefer to be arrested for something they had done, or not done, by the English/Welsh forces than any other in the western world.
The police can be criticised for many things but once politicians open their mouths to do so you have to accept that they do so from a political motive and not one of wanting to improve the various forces, or enlighten the population.
There seems to be this belief that the police in the 'good old days' were trusted and never made mistakes. And officers always acted with the best interests of the public at heart.
Yet the truth is that the current officers make up the best police force England/Wales has ever had, well not since the attack from Cameron and the massive reduction in funding, but even then, from a value for money basis, it has probably improved.
Even marionette May referred to an incident 25 years ago to show how bad the current police force is. OK, so she was acting under orders, of her campaign manager as much as Cameron, but we should remember that these are historic to say the least. Much is still made of the Lawrence murder but if you believe the conclusions of the enquiry then you really shouldn't be allowed scissors. And that reached its majority some time ago.
The point is that 'what has happened to our police force' is that, over the last 30 years, it has become more answerable than any other in the western world, it was cheaper than most per person policed, and that was before Cameron became vindictive after his draft of the Sheehy report was largely derided. The individual officers are more more hard-working that someone of my era would have believed.
Yet they are the least supervised ever. There are far too few sergeants out there. Sooner or later this will tell.
And on top of that anyone with any sense or knowledge would prefer to be arrested for something they had done, or not done, by the English/Welsh forces than any other in the western world.
The police can be criticised for many things but once politicians open their mouths to do so you have to accept that they do so from a political motive and not one of wanting to improve the various forces, or enlighten the population.
I have just read the Evening Standard and it is reassuring to know that the police have the resources to investigate the 'murder' of one of the Queens swans and actually obtain a conviction but do not have the resources or time to investigate ongoing identity theft/fraud and public order & driving offences..
Grrrrrrrr.... Queen's Swan > Eclassy
Grrrrrrrr.... Queen's Swan > Eclassy
Rovinghawk said:
Hooli said:
Any proof of that? the vast majority of law abidding citizens I know detest how useless the police (& the rest of the so called justice system) is.
If you ask any of the serving or ex BiB here they'll tell you how good they are. They regularly do.How much more evidence do you need?
btw, Derek- if you really want to see nice policing, spend some time in Monaco. If you want to see efficient, go to Finland, Switzerland or Germany. If you want to see tough but respected, go to Holland.
(I accept that our police are better than the French.)
In general, the police force a society has is a product of that society.
When England was regarded as a polite and well mannered land we had polite and well mannered police.
Now England is mostly seen by outsiders as football hooligans, benefits street scroungers and binge drinking drunken thugs led by politicians who are torn apart by political infighting.
When England was regarded as a polite and well mannered land we had polite and well mannered police.
Now England is mostly seen by outsiders as football hooligans, benefits street scroungers and binge drinking drunken thugs led by politicians who are torn apart by political infighting.
Rovinghawk said:
if you really want to see nice policing, spend some time in Monaco. If you want to see efficient, go to Finland, Switzerland or Germany. If you want to see tough but respected, go to Holland.
(Sometimes you have to go back on the promises you made yourself.) You really have no idea, do you.
A German force similar in responsibility to, for instance, Sussex, had three helicopters at the force's total disposal and were shocked to find we only had half of one. Don't you realise how little money the English/Welsh forces are run on? Holland tough but respected? Yeah, right, just like the police were in the good old days.
Look up the scandals of other continental police forces and then compare them to those in England/Wales. Check out corruption levels. And all marionette May can come up with is that money given freely to the federation is kept in bank accounts.
There can be no argument, except from those who have no idea what they are talking about, that the current police service is the most honest and hardworking it has ever been. I can't say how much all police forces cost on the continent, but those I do know about are way, way over the cost of England/UK. We can all be efficient with that amount of money thrown at them.
Further, and most importantly, look at performance with regards major incidents.
On top of that, much was made of the Laurence, but is anyone suggesting that an enquiry into, for instance, the murder of a Jew, would be as rigorously pursued in all continental countries as it would be in this?
Some time ago now, foreign forces came to this country to learn from NSY methods. I would assume they would still do, at least up until the chaos caused by Cameron.
Let's look at the shock and horror shown on here - by some who shall remain nameless - that a police officer should push someone in a demonstration and then study how foreign forces deal with similar incidents. Also try and work out how much shrift would have been given to anyone who complained in some of the other countries.
Mind you, the furore against more aggressive policing was notable by its absence when officers were criticised for not beating up rioters in Croydon.
The MPs, as with some of the posters on here, have their own reasons for criticising the police. I have no particular reason for defending them other than irritation about accusations that are nonsense. But I'm not a police officer.
Thee are many things wrong with the service. I've often said this as those without partial memory will know, but having a go at the police for imagined shortcomings is rather silly.
It is all now political. Abbott has not mouthed off for any other reason than that she wants to criticise the tories.
It is a shame that an anti-police stance is seen as the badge of conservatism. There is little doubt in my mind that this is all a precursor to the privatisation of massive parts of the service, the geeforessing of the bits that can be sold off to a grateful private sector. And all for just a few thousand in contributions.
And some reckon the police are bent.
Rovingtroll is very much on my ignore list. But he's a man that likes to come on PH and tell us all how rampantly corrupt the Police are. How the actions of one mean that we're all bent/useless/violent/thugs..etc etc
Yet, there I was browsing another topic and up pops this:
Yet, there I was browsing another topic and up pops this:
Rovinghawk said:
A medical forum might be full of people querying illnesses- it doesn't mean the whole population is sick.
Quite the hypocrite as well.If the politicians gain public traction for reductions in Police pay and conditions and/or privatisation of elements of the force, the Police only have themselves to blame. Their historical behaviour and ongoing denial over events such as Hillsborough, the Met's almost universal refusal to accept blame for anything at any time, the immense scheming and lying by serving officers surrounding the Mitchell affair and many others.
These events only make the publics' minds eye because the Police did them in the first place. If the press are making hay of these actions, it is only because the Police did them in the first place. If politicians make Police lives hell, it is only possible because the Police did the bad things in the first place.
Some on here ridicule the idea of needing to police by consent, yet what has happened to the Police under the current government and how the public have largely backed it only goes to show how true it really is.
These events only make the publics' minds eye because the Police did them in the first place. If the press are making hay of these actions, it is only because the Police did them in the first place. If politicians make Police lives hell, it is only possible because the Police did the bad things in the first place.
Some on here ridicule the idea of needing to police by consent, yet what has happened to the Police under the current government and how the public have largely backed it only goes to show how true it really is.
Eclassy said:
I have just read the Evening Standard and it is reassuring to know that the police have the resources to investigate the 'murder' of one of the Queens swans and actually obtain a conviction but do not have the resources or time to investigate ongoing identity theft/fraud and public order & driving offences..
Grrrrrrrr.... Queen's Swan > Eclassy
If I remember correctly, they did investigate your issues and decided, quite rightly from what you said, not to waste any time on it. Grrrrrrrr.... Queen's Swan > Eclassy
Derek Smith said:
(Sometimes you have to go back on the promises you made yourself.)
You really have no idea, do you.
A German force similar in responsibility to, for instance, Sussex, had three helicopters at the force's total disposal and were shocked to find we only had half of one. Don't you realise how little money the English/Welsh forces are run on? Holland tough but respected? Yeah, right, just like the police were in the good old days.
Look up the scandals of other continental police forces and then compare them to those in England/Wales. Check out corruption levels. And all marionette May can come up with is that money given freely to the federation is kept in bank accounts.
There can be no argument, except from those who have no idea what they are talking about, that the current police service is the most honest and hardworking it has ever been. I can't say how much all police forces cost on the continent, but those I do know about are way, way over the cost of England/UK. We can all be efficient with that amount of money thrown at them.
Further, and most importantly, look at performance with regards major incidents.
On top of that, much was made of the Laurence, but is anyone suggesting that an enquiry into, for instance, the murder of a Jew, would be as rigorously pursued in all continental countries as it would be in this?
Some time ago now, foreign forces came to this country to learn from NSY methods. I would assume they would still do, at least up until the chaos caused by Cameron.
Let's look at the shock and horror shown on here - by some who shall remain nameless - that a police officer should push someone in a demonstration and then study how foreign forces deal with similar incidents. Also try and work out how much shrift would have been given to anyone who complained in some of the other countries.
Mind you, the furore against more aggressive policing was notable by its absence when officers were criticised for not beating up rioters in Croydon.
The MPs, as with some of the posters on here, have their own reasons for criticising the police. I have no particular reason for defending them other than irritation about accusations that are nonsense. But I'm not a police officer.
Thee are many things wrong with the service. I've often said this as those without partial memory will know, but having a go at the police for imagined shortcomings is rather silly.
It is all now political. Abbott has not mouthed off for any other reason than that she wants to criticise the tories.
It is a shame that an anti-police stance is seen as the badge of conservatism. There is little doubt in my mind that this is all a precursor to the privatisation of massive parts of the service, the geeforessing of the bits that can be sold off to a grateful private sector. And all for just a few thousand in contributions.
And some reckon the police are bent.
I agree. I have nothing to do with the police beyond being friends with a couple of officers, and it seems to me that the biggest problem with the police, is the people who set their budgets and priorities. It seems to me that they work under a political and media microscope, hung out to dry or applauded whenever it suits the incumbent government. Sections of our nation have growing feelings of entitlement and paranoia, while sections of our parliament, media and industry encourage these feelings, so the police as public servants have to do the best they can in very complex circumstances, without any sort of cultural or parliamentary protection. You really have no idea, do you.
A German force similar in responsibility to, for instance, Sussex, had three helicopters at the force's total disposal and were shocked to find we only had half of one. Don't you realise how little money the English/Welsh forces are run on? Holland tough but respected? Yeah, right, just like the police were in the good old days.
Look up the scandals of other continental police forces and then compare them to those in England/Wales. Check out corruption levels. And all marionette May can come up with is that money given freely to the federation is kept in bank accounts.
There can be no argument, except from those who have no idea what they are talking about, that the current police service is the most honest and hardworking it has ever been. I can't say how much all police forces cost on the continent, but those I do know about are way, way over the cost of England/UK. We can all be efficient with that amount of money thrown at them.
Further, and most importantly, look at performance with regards major incidents.
On top of that, much was made of the Laurence, but is anyone suggesting that an enquiry into, for instance, the murder of a Jew, would be as rigorously pursued in all continental countries as it would be in this?
Some time ago now, foreign forces came to this country to learn from NSY methods. I would assume they would still do, at least up until the chaos caused by Cameron.
Let's look at the shock and horror shown on here - by some who shall remain nameless - that a police officer should push someone in a demonstration and then study how foreign forces deal with similar incidents. Also try and work out how much shrift would have been given to anyone who complained in some of the other countries.
Mind you, the furore against more aggressive policing was notable by its absence when officers were criticised for not beating up rioters in Croydon.
The MPs, as with some of the posters on here, have their own reasons for criticising the police. I have no particular reason for defending them other than irritation about accusations that are nonsense. But I'm not a police officer.
Thee are many things wrong with the service. I've often said this as those without partial memory will know, but having a go at the police for imagined shortcomings is rather silly.
It is all now political. Abbott has not mouthed off for any other reason than that she wants to criticise the tories.
It is a shame that an anti-police stance is seen as the badge of conservatism. There is little doubt in my mind that this is all a precursor to the privatisation of massive parts of the service, the geeforessing of the bits that can be sold off to a grateful private sector. And all for just a few thousand in contributions.
And some reckon the police are bent.
I would love to see more police officers, and fewer cameras and CCTV, but until somebody with a bit of courage, foresight and credibility has their hands on the purse strings it won't happen. And when was the last time you saw those qualities in a Home Secretary?
EFA
Edited by TheBigUnit on Monday 2nd June 17:08
XCP said:
Consider the year 1980, RH.
Would you say policing nowadays is better or worse than in 1980?.
No no no, rape victims being told they deserved it and domestic violence victims being told to be a better wife and take it on the chin is much better than todays goings on.Would you say policing nowadays is better or worse than in 1980?.
I mean, I worked nights last night and DIDNT have a few pints on my rounds....whats the world coming to?!
Greendubber said:
No no no, rape victims being told they deserved it and domestic violence victims being told to be a better wife and take it on the chin is much better than todays goings on.
I mean, I worked nights last night and DIDNT have a few pints on my rounds....whats the world coming to?!
I know. Back in 'the day', there was 30 Officers per shift. Four Sgts and an Inspector.I mean, I worked nights last night and DIDNT have a few pints on my rounds....whats the world coming to?!
Now with hundreds of extra laws, mobile phones, Facebook, mental health, etc the same shift will have four Officers and a Sgt. These lazy sods today clearly do nothing but swan about annoying people.
Elroy Blue said:
I know. Back in 'the day', there was 30 Officers per shift. Four Sgts and an Inspector.
Now with hundreds of extra laws, mobile phones, Facebook, mental health, etc the same shift will have four Officers and a Sgt. These lazy sods today clearly do nothing but swan about annoying people.
My BiL is a Sgt in a northern force. We met up on Saturday and as we were chatting, the mental health issue was the main thing that frustrated him. He said they used to waste hours and hours chasing patients for health workers, but he now refused to send anyone out unless they were really needed on Police business. Now with hundreds of extra laws, mobile phones, Facebook, mental health, etc the same shift will have four Officers and a Sgt. These lazy sods today clearly do nothing but swan about annoying people.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
My BiL is a Sgt in a northern force. We met up on Saturday and as we were chatting, the mental health issue was the main thing that frustrated him. He said they used to waste hours and hours chasing patients for health workers, but he now refused to send anyone out unless they were really needed on Police business.
Mental health takes up a staggering amount of Police time. Although this may be a figment of my imagination because we're apparently all out with speed guns persecuting motorists.Elroy Blue said:
I know. Back in 'the day', there was 30 Officers per shift. Four Sgts and an Inspector.
Now with hundreds of extra laws, mobile phones, Facebook, mental health, etc the same shift will have four Officers and a Sgt. These lazy sods today clearly do nothing but swan about annoying people.
Yep, we had nearly 50 on our shift 5 years ago, now we're lucky to parade 18.Now with hundreds of extra laws, mobile phones, Facebook, mental health, etc the same shift will have four Officers and a Sgt. These lazy sods today clearly do nothing but swan about annoying people.
Last night a bloke phoned 999 saying he felt suicidal, the police were sent. We did no more than drive straight to him a telephone an Ambulance that took an age to arrive but it seems calling someone an Ambulance is the job of a police officer. The amount of safe and well checks on behalf of the NHS is ridiculous also.
Did you see that PCC for Essex programme?, I've not yet watched it but on all accounts it should show the masses exactly what is wrong with the police service.
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