"What has happened to our police force?"
Discussion
Thanks to the two Police (I think) who responded to my post.
After you both put it like that I can see my bag being snatched off the floor isn't a priority if someone is being hurt or is in danger. I can also see that things crop up, so no problems from me after seeing it like that.
It sounds like the special police are a bit like the territorials in the army. Perfectly okay for basic drills, but not as competent as the regulars. I still think someone has to be a bit loopy to spend their spare time going out and being a policeman/soldier. The army was crap enough with the reasonable pay and generous working hours - so the idea that you'd spend your weekends doing it after a 40 hour week is crazy to me.
After you both put it like that I can see my bag being snatched off the floor isn't a priority if someone is being hurt or is in danger. I can also see that things crop up, so no problems from me after seeing it like that.
It sounds like the special police are a bit like the territorials in the army. Perfectly okay for basic drills, but not as competent as the regulars. I still think someone has to be a bit loopy to spend their spare time going out and being a policeman/soldier. The army was crap enough with the reasonable pay and generous working hours - so the idea that you'd spend your weekends doing it after a 40 hour week is crazy to me.
photosnob said:
After you both put it like that I can see my bag being snatched off the floor isn't a priority if someone is being hurt or is in danger. I can also see that things crop up, so no problems from me after seeing it like that.
The thing the police are poor at is telling you that. If someone called you and explained that to you at the time then you'd have understood. Some forces do a large-scale diary appointment system where people come to the police station, which is much more effective at keeping accurate times on less-urgent matters.
carinaman said:
Well the officer obviously couldn't. 
Greendubber, I should show you some empathy given some off duty West Mids. officer has just been done for assault on your patch. He has to pay £1,000 by early Sept.?
And your patch is also Ann Widdecombe's patch so we're back to page one of the thread, gone full circle and not in the least tangential.
my patch?Greendubber, I should show you some empathy given some off duty West Mids. officer has just been done for assault on your patch. He has to pay £1,000 by early Sept.?
And your patch is also Ann Widdecombe's patch so we're back to page one of the thread, gone full circle and not in the least tangential.
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 21st August 14:38
SV8Predator said:
tuffer said:
one was the only officer on duty for Manchester City center on a Friday night a few weeks back......That is pretty scary.
You'll have to get proof of that one before anyone believes you, old bean.tuffer said:
People can believe what they like, I believe my mate who I have known for 25 years.
Having been in that position myself I believe you, however i suspect that he was the only available office rather than the only one on duty...which is still outrageous. Edited by Greendubber on Thursday 21st August 16:51
tuffer said:
People can believe what they like, I believe my mate who I have known for 25 years.
Having been in that position myself I believe you, however i suspect that he was the only available office rather than the only one on duty...which is still outrageous. Edited by Greendubber on Thursday 21st August 16:52
Carinaman raises the issue of a policeman abusing his authority and position and not one of the so called policemen who has responded as deemed it reasonable to condemn the deplorable behaviour of this corrupt policeman. They have instead chosen to attack Carinaman.
Does this mean the actions of this policeman is acceptable and commonplace?Maybe seen as a perk of the office?
Does this mean the actions of this policeman is acceptable and commonplace?Maybe seen as a perk of the office?
Eclassy said:
Carinaman raises the issue of a policeman abusing his authority and position and not one of the so called policemen who has responded as deemed it reasonable to condemn the deplorable behaviour of this corrupt policeman. They have instead chosen to attack Carinaman.
Does this mean the actions of this policeman is acceptable and commonplace?Maybe seen as a perk of the office?
What do you think?Does this mean the actions of this policeman is acceptable and commonplace?Maybe seen as a perk of the office?
Oh look, another one has turned up. All it needs now is the top troll to arrive and we'll have a full house. This could be a useful discussion about the number of resources now available. Instead it will degenerate into 'ACAB', with the usual suspects talking about 'insults', while posting tripe and irrelevant links. Sadly, a typical thread in SP+L
SV8Predator said:
tuffer said:
one was the only officer on duty for Manchester City center on a Friday night a few weeks back......That is pretty scary.
You'll have to get proof of that one before anyone believes you, old bean.at which point the force support dept promptly trawls for a response officesrs who are response or advanced drivers to go on 'TRVs' ...
Cat said:
Am I the only one whose heart sinks when a thread from months/years past suddenly bobs to the top of the forum like a turd that refuses to flush and the realisation dawns that it will now have a link to some slightly unrelated (if you're lucky) news story along with random ramblings?
As thread starter I was rather surprised to see it popping up again. The original story was given a bit of a pasting by most, and on reflection, I think they're probably right and am grateful to them for advancing my knowledge. That's why we're all here, I think (except the statists, who are of course perfect already).Not saying the thread shouldn't have been resurrected though. I think the principle of keeping similar stories together in the same thread over time is not in itself necessarily wrong, so it comes down to how much the two stories have in common. I guess it doesn't especially matter either way.
La Liga said:
article said:
they arrest householders instead of vandals
Do we? I've never ever known anyone arrest the householder instead of the "vandals". Occasionally people are arrested for either taking revenge or because the incident is so serious it's the best for all involved. But then she's framing this as being a 'sign of the times' and modern. Has this increased? Could it not have occurred more in the past? How does she know? Any data or just pulling it out of her arse and making lazy assumptions to support her crap article? La Liga said:
article said:
refuse to ride bikes unless they have a certificate of fitness to do so
I've never seen this occur. Perhaps she's confusing it with the 3 day cycling course to make sure the people enforcing the law are up-to-scratch with the highway code etc.La Liga said:
article said:
A single complainant gets all offended by a poster outside a local church proclaiming the existence of hell and the police say they are “obliged” to investigate. Why can’t they just tell him to get a life and go back to tackling thieves and rapists?
Because making superficial judgements is flawed? Lots of times I've seen incidents which look on-the-face-of-it to be nonsense and present little to no risk, but when actually looking into it more the circumstances evolve into something more serious.La Liga said:
Are prisons full because of "political correctness"?
No, they're full due to prisons getting sold off and a growing population.Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for our BIB, but most 'civilians' can see how our Police force constantly have to refer to guidelines, fill out reams of paperwork and spend a lot of time 'not' being Police Officers!
One thing that boils my blood was on 'Parking Wars', the Police were stopping people who had unpaid parking fines, so the bailiffs could extort a ridiculous sum of money from the drivers before allowing them to go - some had cars confiscated - since when did a civil offence warrant Police involvement? An utter waste of manpower!
Rant over! Carry on catching scumbags!
La Liga said:
Some forces do a large-scale diary appointment system where people come to the police station, which is much more effective at keeping accurate times on less-urgent matters.
Jim1556 said:
How about the time Myleen Klass was at home and spotted 2 men climbing into her back garden? She was home alone with her very young child at the time, she immediately grabbed a knife and tapped on the window. Said blokes scarpered, only for her to get a visit from plod, threatening arrest for using threatening behaviour? IN HER OWN HOME, TO DEFEND HERSELF AND HER CHILD FROM POTENTIAL BURGLARS/DRUGGIES/GOD KNOWS WHAT???
She was apparently "warned" for having "an offensive weapon" even though that makes no sense since she's in a dwelling and you can't possess one there, and the police statement makes no mention of it. The quote from Ann was "they arrest householders instead of vandals", presented in a way to suggest it's common practice and a 'sign of the times', even though it's not. You could actually find an example of a house holder being arrested, but that misses the point of my point, which was Ann is trying to misrepresent to current way the police operate vs some magical unspecified time she's rose-tinting.
You really do have to go extremely far (especially with the change in the law that allows you to use more force in your home than anywhere else) in order to be the "arrested householder". The police supported the higher threshold, BTW: The Metropolitan Police Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe told the BBC he agreed that homeowners need better protection than they currently get. - how about that, Ann? The last thing any officer wants to do is arrest someone who has used force against someone who was originally committing a crime against them.
Jim1556 said:
I'm sorry, 3 days to teach an adult to ride a bike within the confines of the highway code? You jest, surely?
Why? Officers and PCSOs come in all shapes, sizes, ages and experience. Some people are going to be competent and confident at riding without any need of any help, some won't have written a bike in years. It's hardly a big deal in the grand scheme of things to ride around for three days, if not so people know the fitness levels required. It's like saying why does an adult need to spend several weeks driving fast for an advanced course? Jim1556 said:
I'd guess that's quite a small percentage, and as we're a Christian country (sorry multi-faith), the police shouldn't waste their time on pointless enquiries like this unless a serious breach of the peace is involved!
It is a small % - but it's often high impact when it goes wrong. What does one incident matter in the grand scheme of things? Like I said previously, some things aren't as they appear. Dismissing incidents on superficial information at the call-handling stage leaves gaping room for error and missing risk. Jim1556 said:
No, they're full due to prisons getting sold off and a growing population.
We have had the largest % of our population (which is obviously proportional) in prison over the past few years. We've also had the highest absolute figures. They are full with "real" criminals because the police target and gather evidence against them. Jim1556 said:
No, they're full due to prisons getting sold off and a growing population.
Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for our BIB, but most 'civilians' can see how our Police force constantly have to refer to guidelines, fill out reams of paperwork and spend a lot of time 'not' being Police Officers!
Regarding Political Correctness, see the piece in the Mail on Sunday by Simon Danczuk MP about Sir Peter Fahy. Danczuk praised the Asian Prosecutor that got that gang of teenage girl groomers in Rochdale.Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for our BIB, but most 'civilians' can see how our Police force constantly have to refer to guidelines, fill out reams of paperwork and spend a lot of time 'not' being Police Officers!
Jim1556 said:
One thing that boils my blood was on 'Parking Wars', the Police were stopping people who had unpaid parking fines, so the bailiffs could extort a ridiculous sum of money from the drivers before allowing them to go - some had cars confiscated - since when did a civil offence warrant Police involvement? An utter waste of manpower!
Rant over! Carry on catching scumbags!
Indeed. Parking, big deal! And weren't the Tories on about the 'End of the War against the motorist'? Councils, those partner organisations of the police, need that monetary take from people driving into their centres.Rant over! Carry on catching scumbags!
Jobsworths and technicalities.
La Liga said:
Jim1556 said:
How about the time Myleen Klass was at home and spotted 2 men climbing into her back garden? She was home alone with her very young child at the time, she immediately grabbed a knife and tapped on the window. Said blokes scarpered, only for her to get a visit from plod, threatening arrest for using threatening behaviour? IN HER OWN HOME, TO DEFEND HERSELF AND HER CHILD FROM POTENTIAL BURGLARS/DRUGGIES/GOD KNOWS WHAT???
She was apparently "warned" for having "an offensive weapon" even though that makes no sense since she's in a dwelling and you can't possess one there, and the police statement makes no mention of it. The quote from Ann was "they arrest householders instead of vandals", presented in a way to suggest it's common practice and a 'sign of the times', even though it's not. You could actually find an example of a house holder being arrested, but that misses the point of my point, which was Ann is trying to misrepresent to current way the police operate vs some magical unspecified time she's rose-tinting.
You really do have to go extremely far (especially with the change in the law that allows you to use more force in your home than anywhere else) in order to be the "arrested householder". The police supported the higher threshold, BTW: The Metropolitan Police Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe told the BBC he agreed that homeowners need better protection than they currently get. - how about that, Ann? The last thing any officer wants to do is arrest someone who has used force against someone who was originally committing a crime against them.
Incidentally, if I caught someone breaking in my home, I'd assume they were armed, and cause enough damage, they couldn't be a danger to me (or my 7 yr old daughter) ever again! Thankfully, several recent cases where this has happened - even where the homeowner has been arrested - have not resulted in prosecutions due to self defence.
La Liga said:
Jim1556 said:
I'm sorry, 3 days to teach an adult to ride a bike within the confines of the highway code? You jest, surely?
Why? Officers and PCSOs come in all shapes, sizes, ages and experience. Some people are going to be competent and confident at riding without any need of any help, some won't have written a bike in years. It's hardly a big deal in the grand scheme of things to ride around for three days, if not so people know the fitness levels required. It's like saying why does an adult need to spend several weeks driving fast for an advanced course?As I said, I have the utmost respect for our BIB, just wish their/your hands weren't tied with so much red tape!
Jim1556 said:
La Liga said:
Jim1556 said:
How about the time Myleen Klass was at home and spotted 2 men climbing into her back garden? She was home alone with her very young child at the time, she immediately grabbed a knife and tapped on the window. Said blokes scarpered, only for her to get a visit from plod, threatening arrest for using threatening behaviour? IN HER OWN HOME, TO DEFEND HERSELF AND HER CHILD FROM POTENTIAL BURGLARS/DRUGGIES/GOD KNOWS WHAT???
She was apparently "warned" for having "an offensive weapon" even though that makes no sense since she's in a dwelling and you can't possess one there, and the police statement makes no mention of it. The quote from Ann was "they arrest householders instead of vandals", presented in a way to suggest it's common practice and a 'sign of the times', even though it's not. You could actually find an example of a house holder being arrested, but that misses the point of my point, which was Ann is trying to misrepresent to current way the police operate vs some magical unspecified time she's rose-tinting.
You really do have to go extremely far (especially with the change in the law that allows you to use more force in your home than anywhere else) in order to be the "arrested householder". The police supported the higher threshold, BTW: The Metropolitan Police Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe told the BBC he agreed that homeowners need better protection than they currently get. - how about that, Ann? The last thing any officer wants to do is arrest someone who has used force against someone who was originally committing a crime against them.
Incidentally, if I caught someone breaking in my home, I'd assume they were armed, and cause enough damage, they couldn't be a danger to me (or my 7 yr old daughter) ever again! Thankfully, several recent cases where this has happened - even where the homeowner has been arrested - have not resulted in prosecutions due to self defence.
La Liga said:
Jim1556 said:
I'm sorry, 3 days to teach an adult to ride a bike within the confines of the highway code? You jest, surely?
Why? Officers and PCSOs come in all shapes, sizes, ages and experience. Some people are going to be competent and confident at riding without any need of any help, some won't have written a bike in years. It's hardly a big deal in the grand scheme of things to ride around for three days, if not so people know the fitness levels required. It's like saying why does an adult need to spend several weeks driving fast for an advanced course?As I said, I have the utmost respect for our BIB, just wish their/your hands weren't tied with so much red tape!
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