"What has happened to our police force?"
Discussion
Red 4 said:
Except for the fact that whenever I see PSCOs 'round here they are in pairs.
2x PCSOs are more expensive than 1x Police Officer.
I'd rather have the single cop with powers, training and knowledge.
As would I, but aren't PCSO's funded by the HO as opposed to from the forces bank?2x PCSOs are more expensive than 1x Police Officer.
I'd rather have the single cop with powers, training and knowledge.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Red 4 said:
Except for the fact that whenever I see PSCOs 'round here they are in pairs.
2x PCSOs are more expensive than 1x Police Officer.
I'd rather have the single cop with powers, training and knowledge.
As would I, but aren't PCSO's funded by the HO as opposed to from the forces bank?2x PCSOs are more expensive than 1x Police Officer.
I'd rather have the single cop with powers, training and knowledge.
IIRC they are funded by from The Police and Crime Commissioner's central budget (it changed in 2013).
Mk3Spitfire said:
I didn't realise that. I assumed they still were as we seem to be rolling out hundreds of them at the moment.
I'm no expert on the funding of PCSOs but, as I understand it, the bulk of funding now comes from the central budget.Some may say it's policing on the cheap. I'd say they ain't seen nothing yet
tuffer said:
Cornwall in trouble: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28926988
Have you seen the staff their PCC has? I started to add up their salaries and comparing that the the £100K PH Dream Garage budget, but with considerably more than £100K to spend. The salary bill must be comparable to a nice lottery win.
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 26th August 17:33
Red 4 said:
PCSO's salary = circa £20k(ish).
PC's pay scale = £23k - £37k.
Whilst that might be a pc's pay scale most decent and ambitious police officers will go through promotion and can earn far more than that. That's not having a pop, I just wanted to balance it out. For me the irony is that the higher they go (and earn) the less they do. That's true for most organisations especially government ones. PC's pay scale = £23k - £37k.
photosnob said:
Red 4 said:
PCSO's salary = circa £20k(ish).
PC's pay scale = £23k - £37k.
Whilst that might be a pc's pay scale most decent and ambitious police officers will go through promotion and can earn far more than that. That's not having a pop, I just wanted to balance it out. For me the irony is that the higher they go (and earn) the less they do. That's true for most organisations especially government ones. PC's pay scale = £23k - £37k.
PS - Promotion opportunities are limited in most forces these days - and the vast majority of the force is made up of Constables (PC rank).
Red 4 said:
The salaries I quoted are for PCs. Progression through the payscale is based on length of service. There is currently a pay-freeze.
PS - Promotion opportunities are limited in most forces these days - and the vast majority of the force is made up of Constables (PC rank).
I understand that. I only said it to balance it out. I also think it's worth pointing out that you get more money for working in London, specialist roles (CID, firearms officer), and have a very generous overtime scheme which many other government employees couldn't dream of getting (I'm basing that on my experience of the armed forces).PS - Promotion opportunities are limited in most forces these days - and the vast majority of the force is made up of Constables (PC rank).
Just for reference. I'd actually pay the police more so that you could get and keep a really high calibre of officers, however that's not going to happen in the current climate.
photosnob said:
I understand that. I only said it to balance it out. I also think it's worth pointing out that you get more money for working in London, specialist roles (CID, firearms officer), and have a very generous overtime scheme which many other government employees couldn't dream of getting (I'm basing that on my experience of the armed forces).
Just for reference. I'd actually pay the police more so that you could get and keep a really high calibre of officers, however that's not going to happen in the current climate.
CID and firearms do not get paid more, neither do traffic or dogs or any other specialismJust for reference. I'd actually pay the police more so that you could get and keep a really high calibre of officers, however that's not going to happen in the current climate.
Overtime has been slashed.
If you want to educate yourself (no offence) take a look at The Winsor Reforms. The exact opposite of what you would like to happen is happening - and this is just the beginning.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 26th August 18:44
bad company said:
I think some serving officers here think that I am criticising them. Not so.
I just prefer old fashioned policing and would be prepared to pay the extra tax. Current police seem to do the best they can with limited resources.
Old fashioned policing is dead, the role of the police has changed massively and they now do a lot more than the bread and butter old school village bobby. I just prefer old fashioned policing and would be prepared to pay the extra tax. Current police seem to do the best they can with limited resources.
photosnob said:
Red 4 said:
The salaries I quoted are for PCs. Progression through the payscale is based on length of service. There is currently a pay-freeze.
PS - Promotion opportunities are limited in most forces these days - and the vast majority of the force is made up of Constables (PC rank).
I understand that. I only said it to balance it out. I also think it's worth pointing out that you get more money for working in London, specialist roles (CID, firearms officer), and have a very generous overtime scheme which many other government employees couldn't dream of getting (I'm basing that on my experience of the armed forces).PS - Promotion opportunities are limited in most forces these days - and the vast majority of the force is made up of Constables (PC rank).
Just for reference. I'd actually pay the police more so that you could get and keep a really high calibre of officers, however that's not going to happen in the current climate.
The real situation is theres none of it, i probably don't make £200 a year in overtime! Truth is what small amount is available people don't want to do because the job is so stuffed!
Mk3Spitfire said:
bad company said:
But the village bobby seemed more effective to me.
2 or 3 decades ago, maybe.Everything these days is intel based - but you only get out what is put into the computer, which is often junk.
In rural areas, the "local/ village bobby" knew his patch and everyone on it.
Sorry to sound a little nostalgic but if you had a good officer covering several villages they were a goldmine of information if you needed to know what was what.
Red 4 said:
I wouldn't be so sure - it depends entirely on the area.
Everything these days is intel based - but you only get out what is put into the computer, which is often junk.
In rural areas, the "local/ village bobby" knew his patch and everyone on it.
Sorry to sound a little nostalgic but if you had a good officer covering several villages they were a goldmine of information if you needed to know what was what.
When I lived in rural Cumbria, the town had 2 PCSOs. Both were almost always visible on foot patrol and were a fantastic asset in bridging the gap between the locals and the Police. They must have provided some fantastic Intel, but also did wonders for community relations.Everything these days is intel based - but you only get out what is put into the computer, which is often junk.
In rural areas, the "local/ village bobby" knew his patch and everyone on it.
Sorry to sound a little nostalgic but if you had a good officer covering several villages they were a goldmine of information if you needed to know what was what.
I hope you're well Red 4. I guess I should back you up.
I may have embarrassed two separate officers on separate occasions with local knowledge. Once was when an officer was trying to ingratiate themselves with another officer. I knew the officer had their facts wrong as I was passing at the time of the incident they were getting confused with and gave way to the ARV (black LR product) at one of those convenient urban traffic calming pinch points, and then a few minutes after I saw the marked car passing with someone involved in that incident in the passenger seat. I guess they were doing a street witness search and/or dropping them home.
The other time was when an officer said to a 'vulnerable' MoP that they'd not heard of an infamous perp. That could have been due to the fact that going by their FaceBork ID they'd have been about ten years old when that big fish in a small pond was deservedly busted. As far as I know they're still inside.
Going on that officer's FaceBork profile, although it's 'locked down' they seem to be rather close to a colleague that was there at the time when I helped them out with my local knowledge. So I may have put their nose out in front of two members of the public, and three of their colleagues, one of which they may have been trying to impress or in a relationship with.
I am sure they wouldn't have been in a relationship then what with superiority and rank and that Gargan stuff at Avon & Somerset.
Kids eh? Give 'em the Internet and they think they know everything.
I may have embarrassed two separate officers on separate occasions with local knowledge. Once was when an officer was trying to ingratiate themselves with another officer. I knew the officer had their facts wrong as I was passing at the time of the incident they were getting confused with and gave way to the ARV (black LR product) at one of those convenient urban traffic calming pinch points, and then a few minutes after I saw the marked car passing with someone involved in that incident in the passenger seat. I guess they were doing a street witness search and/or dropping them home.
The other time was when an officer said to a 'vulnerable' MoP that they'd not heard of an infamous perp. That could have been due to the fact that going by their FaceBork ID they'd have been about ten years old when that big fish in a small pond was deservedly busted. As far as I know they're still inside.
Going on that officer's FaceBork profile, although it's 'locked down' they seem to be rather close to a colleague that was there at the time when I helped them out with my local knowledge. So I may have put their nose out in front of two members of the public, and three of their colleagues, one of which they may have been trying to impress or in a relationship with.
I am sure they wouldn't have been in a relationship then what with superiority and rank and that Gargan stuff at Avon & Somerset.
Kids eh? Give 'em the Internet and they think they know everything.
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 26th August 20:04
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