"What has happened to our police force?"
Discussion
If you take out the PCSO's straight away, I imagine you're down to maybe 8 police officers?
That incident happened when it was quiet.
It was a Sunday night. If it had been a Saturday night, you'd still have those 8 officers, probably 4 double crewed cars. 2 cars have drunk prisoners. 1 car has a mental health patient. One car is dealing with a fight in a pub.
Where are all your officers now?
That incident happened when it was quiet.
It was a Sunday night. If it had been a Saturday night, you'd still have those 8 officers, probably 4 double crewed cars. 2 cars have drunk prisoners. 1 car has a mental health patient. One car is dealing with a fight in a pub.
Where are all your officers now?
Mk3Spitfire said:
Rovinghawk said:
He's talking about what happened, not what didn't happen.
I'm sorry, I don't follow?Unless we call him a liar, give him a good explanation for his question rather than just dismissing it. How can they justify that level of resources actually used in an actual real world?
I don't understand how your interpretation of things work.
He gave an example of something that happened, and stated a lot of police turned up.
I had the audacity to suggest that (through personal experience) maybe on this particular occasion, there were officers available. I then went on to give examples of what happens most of the time, and hence why there are insufficient officers to deal with incidents the majority of the time.
You are picking arguments for the sake of it.
He gave an example of something that happened, and stated a lot of police turned up.
I had the audacity to suggest that (through personal experience) maybe on this particular occasion, there were officers available. I then went on to give examples of what happens most of the time, and hence why there are insufficient officers to deal with incidents the majority of the time.
You are picking arguments for the sake of it.
Reminds me of this http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=knH51LX1e8Y
Why that many officers attending a non event. In my area you can definitely notice the reduction in numbers. The police station is now only opened for a few hours and will be closed completely by Autumn.
I am no friend of the police but I believe their budget should be untouched and numbers increased not cut.
Why that many officers attending a non event. In my area you can definitely notice the reduction in numbers. The police station is now only opened for a few hours and will be closed completely by Autumn.
I am no friend of the police but I believe their budget should be untouched and numbers increased not cut.
Edited by Eclassy on Tuesday 3rd June 21:14
As for justifying resources, I will again speak from personal experience, and appreciate that you are unable to.
You NEVER know what's going to happen when you go to a call. That house could have had a dozen drugged up people partying inside. The "known" people might decide to arm themselves. You think it's best to send the minimum number of officers, and hope nothing happens?
It's not. You expect the worst, and prepare for it the best you can. Assistance takes a long time to arrive when you need it.
You NEVER know what's going to happen when you go to a call. That house could have had a dozen drugged up people partying inside. The "known" people might decide to arm themselves. You think it's best to send the minimum number of officers, and hope nothing happens?
It's not. You expect the worst, and prepare for it the best you can. Assistance takes a long time to arrive when you need it.
Rovinghawk said:
How can they justify that level of resources actually used in an actual real world?
Whether the number of officers that attended was justified or not will depend on many factors e.g. What information was passed to the Police about the nature of the domestic when it was phoned in? What information did the Police know about the parties involved and their previous actions in similar situations? How many people were they told were in the property? Without knowing the answers to these sorts of questions it is impossible to say whether or not the number of officers was justified.
Cat
Mk3Spitfire said:
I will again speak from personal experience, and appreciate that you are unable to.
Condescension?Mk3Spitfire said:
You NEVER know what's going to happen when you go to a call. That house could have had a dozen drugged up people partying inside. The "known" people might decide to arm themselves. You think it's best to send the minimum number of officers, and hope nothing happens?
It's not. You expect the worst, and prepare for it the best you can. Assistance takes a long time to arrive when you need it.
I didn't realise the streets had become so lawless; I suppose it's what comes of living in a cul-de-sac. From your description I'm surprised that you didn't have SAS on call- you NEVER know what's going to happen and a sense of proportion could be catastrophic.It's not. You expect the worst, and prepare for it the best you can. Assistance takes a long time to arrive when you need it.
Nevertheless, once it was reasonably established that there weren't a dozen drugged up heavily armed partygoers actually waiting in ambush, would it not have been reasonable to let one or two officers drift off to patrol the rest of the town? Apparently there's a shortage of resources.
I wasn't condescending. I was speaking from experience, and am aware you are unable to.
You can ridicule as much as you like. You carry on living in your nice little culdesac, naive to what some people are like.
Did they not let one or two drift off when it was established there was no need for them? Can you answer that?
You can ridicule as much as you like. You carry on living in your nice little culdesac, naive to what some people are like.
Did they not let one or two drift off when it was established there was no need for them? Can you answer that?
Mk3Spitfire said:
I wasn't condescending. I was speaking from experience, and am aware you are unable to.
You can ridicule as much as you like. You carry on living in your nice little culdesac, naive to what some people are like.
Did they not let one or two drift off when it was established there was no need for them? Can you answer that?
Wasting your time.You can ridicule as much as you like. You carry on living in your nice little culdesac, naive to what some people are like.
Did they not let one or two drift off when it was established there was no need for them? Can you answer that?
Forget offering operational experience on these pages, you'll always be wrong in the eyes of some.
Mk3Spitfire said:
As for justifying resources, I will again speak from personal experience, and appreciate that you are unable to.
You NEVER know what's going to happen when you go to a call. That house could have had a dozen drugged up people partying inside. The "known" people might decide to arm themselves. You think it's best to send the minimum number of officers, and hope nothing happens?
It's not. You expect the worst, and prepare for it the best you can. Assistance takes a long time to arrive when you need it.
Some might not agree, but it's not about a shout. Locally a few years ago, our county/council looked at converting a flat in one block into a drop in centre, with advisor's ,and perhaps at times our local beat officer available to take information. I've clocked the distance from town at about two miles, and this was our local lad's problem. He could be on site when some upset hard blokes called, possibly boozed up/drugged up or both. This was in the days when PC Plod just walked down the beat. This bloke didn't- on night shift ,he investigated the stuff dumped in the rear gardens of empty council properties and found a lot of what he suspected was stolen cycles/motorbikes etc, and had it removed. But if he was confronted by a nasty group in a flat, with little protection - how long for re enforcements to arrive. In rush hour, even on Blues and twos- not quick enough for him to consider this role. You NEVER know what's going to happen when you go to a call. That house could have had a dozen drugged up people partying inside. The "known" people might decide to arm themselves. You think it's best to send the minimum number of officers, and hope nothing happens?
It's not. You expect the worst, and prepare for it the best you can. Assistance takes a long time to arrive when you need it.
Rovinghawk said:
If you're going to quote statistics, could they please be clear and unambiguous? If not, then they're worthless, misleading and actually undermine any point you wish to make.
The data and indications don't change because the reader doesn't know what the labels mean. The methodology I quoted which mentioned London is the same used nationally. It was easier to copy and paste, and answered the simple question I was asked without going into lots of detail. You then decided to nit-pick that it mentioned London specifically (and failed to consider that it may apply everywhere) when it wasn't relevant to answering the question. Regardless of the exact detail, people across the country are asked, “Taking everything into account how good a job do you think the police IN THIS AREA are doing?”
They have to indicate the police are doing a good / excellent job to be be recorded as positive for those percentages. There is a neutral response which isn't a negative response below that, too. So don't assume people who don't say good / excellent have negative views.
I'll also add that "confidence" is pre-police contact, whereas when people have police contacted their "satisfaction" is surveyed (not all, samples again). This figure out-performs confidence all the time. For example, the Met's confidence is 67%, where as their satisfaction is 78%.
That indicates the perception people have about the police is below the reality. They also tend to be highly resilient figures even when scandals are disproportionately reported and people on here get suckered in and say things like "everyone hates the police", "it's going downhill (must be an endless hill the amount of times it gets mentioned)".
Note to whoever reads this; your shed break where no one was caught has no statistical significance (much like the below).
skeggysteve said:
I throw a few questions/point in for the BiB/anyone to answer:
There have been a few posts on here about lack of manpower.
Last sunday evening a domestic incident occurred, just up the road from where I live, the police turned with 2 vans, 1 marked car and 1 plain car.
Being a nosey git I watched out of my bedroom window and counted at least 15 police or PCSO.
Speaking with a neighbour today I found out that the people involved are well known to the police and are not 'that' bad!
So if the police are that undermanned how can they spare that much resources for a domestic?
BTW the area is YO43.
That's one incident. It doesn't really mean anything. There have been a few posts on here about lack of manpower.
Last sunday evening a domestic incident occurred, just up the road from where I live, the police turned with 2 vans, 1 marked car and 1 plain car.
Being a nosey git I watched out of my bedroom window and counted at least 15 police or PCSO.
Speaking with a neighbour today I found out that the people involved are well known to the police and are not 'that' bad!
So if the police are that undermanned how can they spare that much resources for a domestic?
BTW the area is YO43.
Elroy Blue said:
skeggysteve said:
.............
Do people think that if the traffic police were a separate force would the real (for want of a better way to describe them!) police get more respect from the public?
.....................
What are these 'not real, traffic' Police you speak of???Do people think that if the traffic police were a separate force would the real (for want of a better way to describe them!) police get more respect from the public?
.....................
carinaman said:
Quiet night? Loads of officers bored and everyone rushing to the one bit of excitement in town?
Rushing to the excitement of a domestic incident? It is safe to say you have no idea of what is involved with attending and dealing with a domestic, it is about as far from exciting as it gets. 
Cat
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