Dual liner speed limit grey area
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
wessexrfc said:
Would you believe it, I've been caught speeding for a goods vehicle @ 59mph on a 60mph road!!!!
Yes, I would. Was it a goods vehicle with a 50mph limit on an NSL single carriageway?
smiffy180 said:
So are the limits for a ford transit tourneo 9 seater 50, 60, 60 or 60, 70, 70?
When you say 9 seats is that 9 in total or 9 passenger seats? 'Cos the law always refers to no. of passengers.If the Tourneo has 8 passengers seats + a drivers seat it's speed limits are:- 60, 70, 70.
If it has 9 passengers seats + a driver it's speed limits are: 50, 60, 70 (not 50,60,60 because it's not more than 12 metres in length).
Edited by Juliet1981 on Friday 25th July 13:28
Juliet1981 said:
When you say 9 seats is that 9 in total or 9 passenger seats? 'Cos the law always refers to no. of passengers.
If the Tourneo has 8 passengers seats + a drivers seat it's speed limits are:- 60, 70, 70.
If it has 9 passengers seats + a driver it's speed limits are: 50, 60, 70 (not 50,60,60 because it's not more than 12 metres in length)
Sorry my mistake it's 8 passenger + drivers seat. Good to know it's 60, 70, 70If the Tourneo has 8 passengers seats + a drivers seat it's speed limits are:- 60, 70, 70.
If it has 9 passengers seats + a driver it's speed limits are: 50, 60, 70 (not 50,60,60 because it's not more than 12 metres in length)
its the only van I can insure (being 22) at a reasonable price - £400ish.
For the van equivalent it's £2.5k because apparently I don't need one
The seats will come in handy though if I go ahead and buy one
FiF said:
jbsportstech said:
FiF said:
Sigh
Plod was not correct.
It's got nothing to do with car derived vans. Repeat nothing.
The dualiner is a dual purpose vehicle with ulw <2040 kgs and therefore limits are as posted earlier; 60, 70, 70.
Have you got some concrete to back that up with> Can you reference your source.Plod was not correct.
It's got nothing to do with car derived vans. Repeat nothing.
The dualiner is a dual purpose vehicle with ulw <2040 kgs and therefore limits are as posted earlier; 60, 70, 70.
I bet more than one person has been caught and ticketed in this situation. I would not like to go to court with the defence smeone on piston heads said so!
General speed limit since 1978 has been Mway 70, DC 70, SC 60. This comes from the 70 Miles Per Hour, 60 Miles Per Hour and 50 Miles Per Hour (Temporary Speed Limit) (Continuation) Order 1978 (SI 1978/1548), made under section 88 of the 1984 Road Traffic Regulation Act. Secretary of State Bill Rodgers who amended it to make dual carriageways back to 70 mph and single carriageways from 50 to 60mph.
Schedule 6 of RTRA restricts speed limits for certain classes of vehicle as follows.:-
Schedule 6 RTRA said:
Schedule 6 Item 1 A passenger vehicle, motor caravan or dual-purpose vehicle not drawing a trailer being a vehicle with an unladen weight exceeding 3•05 tonnes or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers:
(i) if not exceeding 12 metres in overall length 70 60 50
So the crux of the matter regarding the Dualiner is, does it meet the criteria for a dual purpose vehicle as outlined above, if it does then it’s the 70, 60,50 limits , i.e. same as van limits, if not then the general limits apply MW 70, DC 70, SC 60.(i) if not exceeding 12 metres in overall length 70 60 50
Schedule 6 defines a dual purpose vehicle in a footnote.
footnote to schedule 6 said:
2
In this Schedule—
[F4 “agricultural motor vehicle” ] “articulated vehicle”, “dual-purpose vehicle”, “industrial tractor”, “passenger vehicle”, “pneumatic tyre”, “track-laying”, “wheel” and “works truck” have the same meanings as are respectively given to those expressions in Regulation 3(1) of the M3 Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1978;
See construction and use regs for definition of DPV.In this Schedule—
[F4 “agricultural motor vehicle” ] “articulated vehicle”, “dual-purpose vehicle”, “industrial tractor”, “passenger vehicle”, “pneumatic tyre”, “track-laying”, “wheel” and “works truck” have the same meanings as are respectively given to those expressions in Regulation 3(1) of the M3 Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1978;
Constr and Use regs said:
dual-purpose vehicle
a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(i)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(ii)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.
So let’s turn to the specification sheet for the Dualiner. linka vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(i)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(ii)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.
Pages 12 and 32 – 35 refer.
Here I upload the screen grabs to show that it clearly meets all the DPV criteria.
So to summarise.
Less than 2040 ulw in all configurations.
Solid roof
Row of two or more seats behind the driver
Windows of suitable area
Sufficient load space length behind the rearmost seats.
Therefore, in conclusion, the Vito Dualiner is a dual purpose vehicle, and has an unladen weight not in excess of 3.05 tonnes, not adapted to carry more than 8 passenger and is not more than 12 metres overall length, therefore the restriction in Schedule 6 item 1 does not apply, therefore general speed limits do apply.
Note- The discrepancy between the 2040 kgs in C&U and the 3050kgs in RTRA causes people to be confused. My interpretation is that having an ulw above 2040 the vehicle ceases to be a dpv and becomes a goods vehicle.
I rest my case.
Ok chaps, my wife has this:
It's a 3.5T Movano which weighs about 2.5T unladen. However, it has a crew cab with a row of 3 normal, forward facing seats behind the driver's and passenger's seats. I assumed that it would be subject to van speed limits i.e. 50/60/60 but I'm now not so sure!
Can anyone clarify for me?
It's a 3.5T Movano which weighs about 2.5T unladen. However, it has a crew cab with a row of 3 normal, forward facing seats behind the driver's and passenger's seats. I assumed that it would be subject to van speed limits i.e. 50/60/60 but I'm now not so sure!
Can anyone clarify for me?
Nigel_O said:
On my recent speed awareness course, I learned about the reduced limits that apply to vans that aren't car-derived
The Vito certainly isn't based on any car in Merc's range, so therefore it cannot be classed as car-derived and as such is subject to the lower limits
A SAC making gross over simplications? Shock!The Vito certainly isn't based on any car in Merc's range, so therefore it cannot be classed as car-derived and as such is subject to the lower limits
TooMany2cvs said:
Straight away, it's not a DPV. It's too heavy unladen. So van limits.
If you've only got a ton of payload, and five seats, that's not much scope for Tesco Lasagne...
Now I'm confused.If you've only got a ton of payload, and five seats, that's not much scope for Tesco Lasagne...
The van I posted is 8 passenger plus driver which gives it normal speed limits but it weighs 2.8T, so is it still 70 limit or 60?
smiffy180 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Straight away, it's not a DPV. It's too heavy unladen. So van limits.
If you've only got a ton of payload, and five seats, that's not much scope for Tesco Lasagne...
Now I'm confused.If you've only got a ton of payload, and five seats, that's not much scope for Tesco Lasagne...
The van I posted is 8 passenger plus driver which gives it normal speed limits but it weighs 2.8T, so is it still 70 limit or 60?
Looks like a dying cause due to description on the V5 document describing it as a "light goods" and "panel van" despite this van having glass panels all-round as you would with a minibus and not metal as you would with a normal panel van. Have replied back to them saying this and that it is a multi-purpose vehicle and sending photos of the glass and seats behind the drivers seat, not looking too hopeful 
.
. TooMany2cvs said:
smiffy180 said:
I took your answer as a general if it's over x weight it's restricted 
Which, for a DPV, is the case - look back up to the DPV regs. There's a max ULW of just over 2t. But your Tranny minibus isn't aiming at DPV anyway... It's an 8 passenger seat minibus.60/70/70 for speed limits , hackney or PHV to use it for earn money by carrying people
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