NIP received, not me that was speeding?

[RikGT4]

Hi,

I’ve just received a NIP through the post, caught by a gatso camera coming out of Leeds Centre on A64(York) doing alleged 50mph (40 limit). I’m 99% sure I wasn’t doing an indicated 50mph+ and from looking at the pictures I think the camera may have been triggered by the car in the outside lane but I have been sent the NIP (possibly sent out by someone who hasn’t checked the pictures properly?). I’m not sure i’m allowed to post the pictures on here but would anyone mind taking a look if I forward them on? Or if its ok to put pics on here then I will do. To me, they seem to show:
• Car in outside lane has gained significantly on me from 1st to 2nd pic (at least a couple of white markings)
• Difference in white markings 1st to 2nd pic show I’ve covered about 8, possibly 9 at most whereas the other car has covered 10. Not sure how accurate it is but from what I can find each white mark represents 5mph? I believe it depends on the distance between markings and time difference between camera pics (0.7s) though.

Am I right in thinking even if I want to dispute the offence I still sign and return the NIP and then wait for the FPN to come through? I’ve tried calling the number on the NIP but its just an automated line.

Thanks for any advice

Rik

[Stoofa]

You are correct on the returning of the S172. You are being asked if you were driving the vehicle - so you either need to confirm you were or nominate the driver that was. You need to do this within the 28 days. You are not pleeding guilty by returning the S172, you can still refuse the FPN later.

[Mr Trophy]

Put the pictures up, sure some PH'er can help.

[aw51 121565]

Making an assumption that the 'white marker lines' are 6 feet apart (they don't "represent 5mph", how could they??), and that you crossed 8 in 0.7 seconds that you travelled 6 feet * 8 lines = 48 feet in that 0.7 of a second between the two pictures.

How far did you travel in the full second? 48 feet / 0.7 seconds = 68.6 feet, so your speed was 68.6 ft/sec.

30mph = 44 ft/sec, so 68.6/44 = 1.56, multiply 30mph by this and your speed was 46.8mph.

This is only a rough figure, dependent on the distance between the white marker lines.

If you crossed 9 lines (and not 8) then your speed was (as per above rider) 52.6mph.

And so on...

[speedking31]

But if he only just crossed 8 lines then he covered 7 * 6 = 42 feet for a speed of 40.9 mph, much nearer the threshold. Integer numbers of lines is too coarse a measure. However OP now has all he needs to calculate speed from the exact number of gaps between lines covered. He can also estimate the interline distance from the length of his car.

[RikGT4]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, really appreciate it.
Here are the pics, hope this works...




I guess I may need to physically measure the distance between the white lines at the site to get accurate figures, I've seen 5ft mentioned as a common distance but might not be the case.

Rik

[dingg]

Certainly looks like the car in the outside lane is going faster,

good luck

[98elise]

aw51 121565 said:

Making an assumption that the 'white marker lines' are 6 feet apart (they don't "represent 5mph", how could they??).......

Each line could represent 5mph, at a given speed you will travel a fixed distance in a fixed time. The time is fixed by the diffeference between shots. Each line can be painted at the fixed distance for 5mph, 10mph, 15mph etc.

When the person looking at the photo see's say 50mph, they simply count the number of lines crossed to see if it tallys.

I've no idea if thats what they do, but its certainly possible.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

Perhaps they've determined that you were both speeding, and the other driver has received an NIP as well?

[LoonR1]

RikGT4 said:

Thanks for all the advice everyone, really appreciate it.
Here are the pics, hope this works...




I guess I may need to physically measure the distance between the white lines at the site to get accurate figures, I've seen 5ft mentioned as a common distance but might not be the case.

Rik

How do you know you both haven't been sent a NIP for each of your own alleged offences?

Btw, I'm surprised they send the photos now. I didn't think they did that, as that's the evidence for the case isn't it?

[RikGT4]

That's a fair point but the camera only seemed to flash twice and was triggered at 50mph so I was hoping someone who knew better than me would be able to work out my speed from the pictures. I'm pretty certain I wasnt doing 50mph and I'm pretty far down the markings on the first picture, I would have thought if you were going to use the markings to calculate speed you'd set it up so that the car was nearer the camera on the first pic?

Does anybody know that would happen if the pictures show I'm doing say, 46mph, if they could still penalise me because of the contradiction with the gatso recorded speed of 50mph?

Thanks
Rik

[talksthetorque]

How does the camera ( or more precisely speed sensor) tell which car was doing 50mph?

[sherbertdip]

RikGT4 said:

Hi,

I’ve just received a NIP through the post,
Rik

When did you actually receive the NIP ? photo's are dated 21st June, I make that more than 14 days.

[The Moose]

Get on Google Earth and use the measuring tool to get a very rough indication of distance. Do the maths and if it's close get down there with a tape measure and a helper!

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

RikGT4 said:

Thanks for all the advice everyone, really appreciate it.
Here are the pics, hope this works...




I guess I may need to physically measure the distance between the white lines at the site to get accurate figures, I've seen 5ft mentioned as a common distance but might not be the case.

Rik

T'other car is deffo going faster than you. That's a good start?

[Funk]

This might help put it in perspective:



Calculating from the line at your rear O/S wheel, it looks like you covered 8 of the markers in 0.7sec.





Find out what the increments are and you can calculate your speed yourself.

Edited by Funk on Friday 11th July 22:19

[RikGT4]

Thanks guys, I've had the NIP since early July, been in disbelief since hence the delay. Lol. I'll get a measurement of the distance between the lines.

Rik

[Funk]

For what it's worth, I don't think you were speeding from looking at that and the calculations posted above. Common distance seems to be 5ft which means, by my calculations, you were doing 39mph. With a likely over-read on your speedo it seems pretty realistic.

The other car is definitely going faster than you and I think you've gotten caught up in his offence. Return the NIP and if it were me, I'd be contesting the ticket.

[V8LM]

The car in the outer lane looks to be doing 49 mph (if the lines are 5 ft apart).

[SS2.]

First things first (other than completing the s.172 and ensuring it's back within 28 days from the date it was served), you need to be positive on the spacing of the lines.