Number Plate Format
Discussion
AMDHIL said:
eccles said:
I got an advisory on my last MOT for my front number plate (part of a letter had been jet washed off). I drove from the garage to my local car shop, walked out 7 minutes later with a new number plate. Drove home, drilled a couple of holes in the new plate and screwed it on. All this within about half an hour of it being snagged.
Instead of faffing around fitting dodgy plates, why not get a new plate or drive your car to a garage and get them to fit you one.... it's really not very hard.
Because the fault was so minor, anyone normal it would not have bothered, definitely does not constitute a off duty officer reporting the fault. Its undoubtedly envy!Instead of faffing around fitting dodgy plates, why not get a new plate or drive your car to a garage and get them to fit you one.... it's really not very hard.
Perhaps the court felt the covering letter was not an admission of guilt, and that you disagree with the offence,despite the cheque. So they set a date for you to explain your reasoning.
If you go to court then you can argue that was an incorrect reading so you should not get anything more than a fixed penalty
If you go to court then you can argue that was an incorrect reading so you should not get anything more than a fixed penalty
OP,
I just don't get this. I think there may be more to it (apologies if I'm wrong).
Off duty officer 'spots' your car with illegal numberplate spaceing of 11mm whilst travelling at 40mph. Then actually goes to the bother of reporting you. That alone sounds odd, how the hell could he spot that difference without measuring it? Are you sure there is no 'history' there?
Then, having been given £100 fine and knowing the plate was illegal and by your own admission, you had been told to take it off before, you still try to moan about it / get away with it. You've got a Bentley and your own company so I'd guess £100 isn't much to you, yet despite being caught bang to rights why didn't you just pay it and shut up? I'd have been glad they didn't take the plate off you if you'd already had a warning.
So maybe your letter back to them incensed them (again history?) and looked in to it deeper and found your previous warning.
You had an illegal plate which you knew was illegal and had previously had a warning for. Once the letter drops on my mat I would have thought 2 things:
1) Oh F*&K i've been caught, that's cost me £100
2) Hmmm, I don't want to pay £100 so as I wasn't stopped I'll get new plates fitted and claim the officer must be mistaken and offer my car up for inspection. This ultimately may lead to you having to perjure yourself if they still took it to court.
So I'd go with option 1 and pay up. Instead you tried to moan about it. Maybe they just want to make and example of you (again history?)
I have a distinctive car and a distinctive plate and so far I have had 3 'discussions' with police officers on it and each time I've left with a smile and a handshake as I treat the officers with respect and they realise that it isn't the biggest thing in the world to waste too much time on. The fact this was an off-duty officer seems even weirder, as he's not even on duty where he has to car about such trivial matters. Are you sure you don't know the officer who reported you? Ever slept with his girlfriend/wife/ex/trod on his toe in a pub?
It just seems crazy that it would get reported, you would complain about being caught red handed and then they would refuse your payment of the fine and take you to court. All just seems very odd to me.
I just don't get this. I think there may be more to it (apologies if I'm wrong).
Off duty officer 'spots' your car with illegal numberplate spaceing of 11mm whilst travelling at 40mph. Then actually goes to the bother of reporting you. That alone sounds odd, how the hell could he spot that difference without measuring it? Are you sure there is no 'history' there?
Then, having been given £100 fine and knowing the plate was illegal and by your own admission, you had been told to take it off before, you still try to moan about it / get away with it. You've got a Bentley and your own company so I'd guess £100 isn't much to you, yet despite being caught bang to rights why didn't you just pay it and shut up? I'd have been glad they didn't take the plate off you if you'd already had a warning.
So maybe your letter back to them incensed them (again history?) and looked in to it deeper and found your previous warning.
You had an illegal plate which you knew was illegal and had previously had a warning for. Once the letter drops on my mat I would have thought 2 things:
1) Oh F*&K i've been caught, that's cost me £100
2) Hmmm, I don't want to pay £100 so as I wasn't stopped I'll get new plates fitted and claim the officer must be mistaken and offer my car up for inspection. This ultimately may lead to you having to perjure yourself if they still took it to court.
So I'd go with option 1 and pay up. Instead you tried to moan about it. Maybe they just want to make and example of you (again history?)
I have a distinctive car and a distinctive plate and so far I have had 3 'discussions' with police officers on it and each time I've left with a smile and a handshake as I treat the officers with respect and they realise that it isn't the biggest thing in the world to waste too much time on. The fact this was an off-duty officer seems even weirder, as he's not even on duty where he has to car about such trivial matters. Are you sure you don't know the officer who reported you? Ever slept with his girlfriend/wife/ex/trod on his toe in a pub?
It just seems crazy that it would get reported, you would complain about being caught red handed and then they would refuse your payment of the fine and take you to court. All just seems very odd to me.
Like a lot of guys on here, I find this story suspicious.
A Fixed Penalty Notice under s. 54(2) RTOA 1988 can only be lawfully issued by a constable in uniform (which can include certain other categories of person who are defined by statute as constables in uniform - but I'm pretty sure it does not include constables in civvies).
So, he would have had to call in and report the offence and someone would then have to issue the FPN.
If a FPN had been issued I would not have paid it, simply returned with photo of car wearing legal plates and suggesting that the officer made an understandable simple mistake. As there is no proof and the only evidence they have is your photo I would be very surprised if they decided to continue with the prosecution. Somthing fishy here, methinks.
A Fixed Penalty Notice under s. 54(2) RTOA 1988 can only be lawfully issued by a constable in uniform (which can include certain other categories of person who are defined by statute as constables in uniform - but I'm pretty sure it does not include constables in civvies).
So, he would have had to call in and report the offence and someone would then have to issue the FPN.
If a FPN had been issued I would not have paid it, simply returned with photo of car wearing legal plates and suggesting that the officer made an understandable simple mistake. As there is no proof and the only evidence they have is your photo I would be very surprised if they decided to continue with the prosecution. Somthing fishy here, methinks.
+1 to the above.
An off duty cop reporting you for the plate and giving you a fixed penalty instead of a VDRS is probably a consequence of driving a car that sticks out and committing an offence which ostensibly looks like you're picking and choosing which road traffic laws you think apply to you - not a great combination. Numberplate law transgressions in particular make it appear like you care more about your image than the law. Then again discretion doesn't mean everything goes your way always, otherwise it's not discretion.
But for the ticketing office to reject your cheque, one of hundreds they would no doubt see on a given day, and summons you implies the whole system is against you. A bit too far fetched really.
I know it's probably not what you want to hear - and it is unfair that you got a FPN when others would get a VDRS, or not even bothered with, but that's the risk you take when you knowingly break road traffic laws, even minor ones. In a distinctive car your odds of being noticed increase exponentially, including being noticed by Police. As a rule if you're going to seek attention you need to make sure your house is in order, or are prepared to suffer the consequences (fines) if you're not. You can't really cry foul when you inevitably get prosecuted for it.
An off duty cop reporting you for the plate and giving you a fixed penalty instead of a VDRS is probably a consequence of driving a car that sticks out and committing an offence which ostensibly looks like you're picking and choosing which road traffic laws you think apply to you - not a great combination. Numberplate law transgressions in particular make it appear like you care more about your image than the law. Then again discretion doesn't mean everything goes your way always, otherwise it's not discretion.
But for the ticketing office to reject your cheque, one of hundreds they would no doubt see on a given day, and summons you implies the whole system is against you. A bit too far fetched really.
I know it's probably not what you want to hear - and it is unfair that you got a FPN when others would get a VDRS, or not even bothered with, but that's the risk you take when you knowingly break road traffic laws, even minor ones. In a distinctive car your odds of being noticed increase exponentially, including being noticed by Police. As a rule if you're going to seek attention you need to make sure your house is in order, or are prepared to suffer the consequences (fines) if you're not. You can't really cry foul when you inevitably get prosecuted for it.
R11ysf said:
... You've got a Bentley and your own company...
I think the OP feels that this makes him above the law. Lets say he's been issued with a notice to get it fixed (it seems he's been told of the plate before) so BiB sees him around a long time after still not having bothered to do so (and given car etc its not for shortage of cash, its just him giving 2 fingers to the law). So they follow up, and he gets fined. His letter then probably sets out that he's not admitting guilt and goes into a rant and so payment is redundant. I can believe this is a more credible explanation that some massive conspiracy theory and the OP being a marked man
Jon1967x said:
I think the OP feels that this makes him above the law. Lets say he's been issued with a notice to get it fixed (it seems he's been told of the plate before) so BiB sees him around a long time after still not having bothered to do so (and given car etc its not for shortage of cash, its just him giving 2 fingers to the law). So they follow up, and he gets fined. His letter then probably sets out that he's not admitting guilt and goes into a rant and so payment is redundant. I can believe this is a more credible explanation that some massive conspiracy theory and the OP being a marked man
The information I have provided is fact, its unrealistic to suggested otherwise. If you read the full discussion you would realise that I have lost thousands in pursuit of obeying the law, you will also realise that I have been treated badly by the police and proved the wrong recently. These are the facts anything else is an assumption conjured up in an individual's heads . you can't make up part of a story? thats totally unfair on me?AMDHIL said:
Jon1967x said:
I think the OP feels that this makes him above the law. Lets say he's been issued with a notice to get it fixed (it seems he's been told of the plate before) so BiB sees him around a long time after still not having bothered to do so (and given car etc its not for shortage of cash, its just him giving 2 fingers to the law). So they follow up, and he gets fined. His letter then probably sets out that he's not admitting guilt and goes into a rant and so payment is redundant. I can believe this is a more credible explanation that some massive conspiracy theory and the OP being a marked man
The information I have provided is fact, its unrealistic to suggested otherwise. If you read the full discussion you would realise that I have lost thousands in pursuit of obeying the law, you will also realise that I have been treated badly by the police and proved the wrong recently. These are the facts anything else is an assumption conjured up in an individual's heads . you can't make up part of a story? thats totally unfair on me?VDRS is obsolete in some forces, including mine. Another example of our discretion being taken away from us.
As for the story...I also believe there may be more to it.
How do you know an off duty officer spotted you? How do you know you were doing 40mph at the time they spotted it? The whole cheque thing is strange. The whole scenario is strange.
As for the story...I also believe there may be more to it.
How do you know an off duty officer spotted you? How do you know you were doing 40mph at the time they spotted it? The whole cheque thing is strange. The whole scenario is strange.
Jon1967x said:
You admit you'd been warned of the plate and did nothing about it. You admit you wrote giving them a piece of your mind. If you're in the right, go to court and have your fun there having tried to pay the FPN but as stated repeatedly what happens or not to others is no defence (otherwise we'd all be arguing over speeding tickets). I dare say you've bad issues in the past and you may well have been right, my point is simply that in this instance the information you have provided suggests that on it's own merits you've ended up where you are.
Your correct in that I was warned a long time ago on a different carhowever i did not give them a piece of my mind I simply said in a very civil manner that had a valid reason for having the plate on
I have had no past issues!!!! the reason I spent 3k on evicting tenants legally as opposed to spending £100 on getting them physically kicked out to stay on the right side of the law (I mention this to show I'm a law abiding person)
Your jumping t conclusions again, yes I have my own business and a flash car, I didn't get it for free. I got it by working three jobs and 4 hours a sleep a day.
Im sorry but I wasn't asking for colombo to solve the case but I was simply asking a few questions based on the information I have provided. I have no reason to lie to the people on this forum as you guys cannot cancel the summons for me
Durzel said:
Your "mitigation" sounds very weak to be honest.
Knowing that the plate was illegal is hardly mitigation. The fact you had a legal plate at some point in the past is academic. It takes no time at all to get replacement plates - certainly less than 2 weeks.
Likewise it being unfair that others get warnings or vehicle defect forms instead of fines is not really here nor there. Discretion by definition doesn't always go your way.
As for being targeted or whatever because of previous interactions - what difference does that make when you've admitted committing an offence anyway?
Yes the "I knew it was illegal but I did it anyway" is an interesting take on complying with the law. If t works very few law breakers would ever be prosecuted. I cannot see much merit in the complaint. Knowing that the plate was illegal is hardly mitigation. The fact you had a legal plate at some point in the past is academic. It takes no time at all to get replacement plates - certainly less than 2 weeks.
Likewise it being unfair that others get warnings or vehicle defect forms instead of fines is not really here nor there. Discretion by definition doesn't always go your way.
As for being targeted or whatever because of previous interactions - what difference does that make when you've admitted committing an offence anyway?
Mk3Spitfire said:
VDRS is obsolete in some forces, including mine. Another example of our discretion being taken away from us.
As for the story...I also believe there may be more to it.
How do you know an off duty officer spotted you? How do you know you were doing 40mph at the time they spotted it? The whole cheque thing is strange. The whole scenario is strange.
The witness statement from the officer provides all this information As for the story...I also believe there may be more to it.
How do you know an off duty officer spotted you? How do you know you were doing 40mph at the time they spotted it? The whole cheque thing is strange. The whole scenario is strange.
(please just accept im telling the truth)
This does happen, I have in a separate incident been accused formally by a police officer and the only reason I was able to prove him wrong was with on board video footage. There are corrupt police officers and I was victimised for driving a nice car. I chose not to make a formal complaint because he had been in the force for 15 years with a clean record and he has a family
Steffan said:
Yes the "I knew it was illegal but I did it anyway" is an interesting take on complying with the law. If t works very few law breakers would ever be prosecuted. I cannot see much merit in the complaint.
Law is not black and white, "The law will do what ought to be done" hence the reason for being able to present mitigating circumstances I don't understand this targeting people because of the car they drive. It's never occurred to me. The only time I have ever stopped someone because of their car was to admire it, although he was speeding too. (Stunning e-type). As for your plate issue, you could try phoning your forces traffic process unit.
As for the officer who was lying, regardless of his clean record, if you had irrefutable evidence he was corrupt, you should have had a word with his supervisors. Over zealous, corrupt officers give the rest of us a bad name.
As for the officer who was lying, regardless of his clean record, if you had irrefutable evidence he was corrupt, you should have had a word with his supervisors. Over zealous, corrupt officers give the rest of us a bad name.
AMDHIL said:
The other issue is that I actually provided the payment
And if all you had done was put the cheque in the envelope, they would have cashed it and that would have been the end of it. Your only option now is to go to court, plead guilty, offer you mitigation for the offence, apologise for the letter which must have been misinterpreted and hope it costs you only £200 for the experience. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff