It's coming - EU cross-border exchange of information
Discussion
trashbat said:
mybrainhurts said:
You mean the same way Mike Rutherford was treated in France? Pulled into a layby portakabin for speeding, when he wasn't, as French cars thundered by unhindered, then had a gun placed on the table when he asked for a receipt after his cash was dropped into the desk drawer?
All the cars pulled into the layby were UK registered.
That kind of "treated the same way"?
Erm... can I interest Sir in a large dose of the very point?All the cars pulled into the layby were UK registered.
That kind of "treated the same way"?
Incidentally, how do you know that the French drivers didn't receive penalty points in the post?
trashbat said:
(FWIW I think there's some merit in the French pulling over a disproportionate number of RHD drivers)
Not Sure If Serious.mybrainhurts said:
He was pulled by a motorcycle frogplod, in the days before cameras. No French cars were pulled over, despite many obviously exceeding the limit.
The point: if this nefarious scheme was in place, they wouldn't be able to fine him any more, and I can't see bent French police bothering to fill in the paperwork required to send points abroad.mybrainhurts said:
trashbat said:
(FWIW I think there's some merit in the French pulling over a disproportionate number of RHD drivers)
Not Sure If Serious.mybrainhurts said:
All the cars pulled into the layby were UK registered.
I can beat this - personal experience.I've been going down to the Costa Brava for summer holidays since 1981; back in the 80s and early 90s with parents and sisters with car and caravan.
I can't remember what year exactly but I'll hazard that it was 1988 or so (before the new bypass) and we were coming home and going through a place called Uzerche which has a big hill exiting it. Lots and lots of Brits on the road. So the outfut is labouring up the hill (7 people in car, boat on roof, twin axle caravan) when suddenly two French motorbike cops come past and flag us over. All the backed up traffic behind then streaks past.
After a few minutes of holding us the police let us on our way. No explanation.
A few miles down the road and there's a bit of a slowdown as the police are flagging loads of cars down and pulling them into a big parking area at the side of the road. All British.
So you can make what you will of them pulling us over (and why) and who they were after.
That's not some second hand tale - I was there; I saw it.
A legal framework for the mutual recognition of driving bans exists in the EU. After 16 years few MSs have ratified it. The UK and Ireland have but that currently applies only between each other. If the Commission were to propose a Directive to achieve EU wide mutual recognition why would those countries that haven't ratified the existing Decision support it? Without Member State support these Directives cannot be adopted.
Dog Star said:
So the outfut is labouring up the hill (7 people in car, boat on roof, twin axle caravan) when suddenly two French motorbike cops come past and flag us over. All the backed up traffic behind then streaks past.
After a few minutes of holding us the police let us on our way. No explanation.
I think you explained it yourself in the sentence above. After a few minutes of holding us the police let us on our way. No explanation.
Dog Star said:
A few miles down the road and there's a bit of a slowdown as the police are flagging loads of cars down and pulling them into a big parking area at the side of the road. All British.
So you can make what you will of them pulling us over (and why) and who they were after.
Maybe this is an alternative explanation for your tug? They needed you out of they way so that they could have the opportunity to nab all the frustrated Brits who were released after being stuck behind you for the last 20km. So you can make what you will of them pulling us over (and why) and who they were after.
hdrflow said:
The reason this is most unwelcome is because it brings us closer to an european federation that is surreptitiously being introduced. There's a big difference in allowing for a common european economic market (which is a good thing), but this is too close to political union.
No, it really isn't.Political union, or a "federation", would be every country having the same traffic laws set centrally.
All this is is making it easier for each country to enforce THEIR OWN traffic laws when they're broken by people who don't happen to live in that country.
Speed cameras are bad, Trafpol are good - unless it happens to be in JohnnyForeignerLand, in which case TrafPol are bad and cameras are good, because there won't be any comeback.
Foreign drivers take the piss and the law doesn't apply to them, unless it's British drivers in JohnnyForeignerLand, in which case it's disgusting that the law should apply to them...
Pistonheads - Xenophobic hypocrisy matters.
TooMany2cvs said:
Pistonheads - Xenophobic hypocrisy matters.
Pardon? You may want to look at the flag on my profile. Separate European countries are a good thing. The more we allow for this the less independent countries are. That's a bad thing. Look at Greece, currently unable to set their own monetary policy whilst the Germans profit.hdrflow said:
I rather have countries setting their own policies.
AFAICT, there's no suggestion of anything else.This is about those countries ENFORCING their own traffic laws, when it comes to people who live elsewhere breaking them.
You live in Portugal. Should you be able to drive a car on UK plates and ignore Portuguese traffic law? Should a Portugese person be able to drive a Portugese car in the UK and ignore UK traffic law? No? That's what this is about, not Portugese and UK traffic law being morphed into one.
TooMany2cvs said:
hdrflow said:
I rather have countries setting their own policies.
AFAICT, there's no suggestion of anything else.This is about those countries ENFORCING their own traffic laws, when it comes to people who live elsewhere breaking them.
You live in Portugal. Should you be able to drive a car on UK plates and ignore Portuguese traffic law? Should a Portugese person be able to drive a Portugese car in the UK and ignore UK traffic law? No? That's what this is about, not Portugese and UK traffic law being morphed into one.
The point that's being missed is as discussed by agtlaw on page 1 and me on page 2 about a year ago is that the only way this can be made to work in a fair and just manner is if Portuguese and UK law is morphed into one, and Spanish, French, Italian, Polish, Bulgarian, Lithuanian, Finnish, Swedish etc etc.
Which means complete political and legal union, before we even consider altering all the signs, road markings , traffic regulation orders, Highway code available in all languages and no sneaky little local conventions bla bla bla.
This should be a non-starter and hope UK tells the EU to FRO.
Which means complete political and legal union, before we even consider altering all the signs, road markings , traffic regulation orders, Highway code available in all languages and no sneaky little local conventions bla bla bla.
This should be a non-starter and hope UK tells the EU to FRO.
I watched some of the debate today. A London Labour MEP spoke in favour of the measure, UKIP was against it.
Apparently 500,000 UK drivers speed through France every year. Not sure how that figure is calculated. If I go to France and trigger 20 speed cameras then is that 20 drivers?
The debate is available to download. Warning - its a bit amateur hour and ties are apparently optional for MEPs.
In the meantime, UKIP speaker:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/SY0gxz0J2WE
Download each speech as an MP4 video. Debate starts at 15:00:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/en/debate-de...
Apparently 500,000 UK drivers speed through France every year. Not sure how that figure is calculated. If I go to France and trigger 20 speed cameras then is that 20 drivers?
The debate is available to download. Warning - its a bit amateur hour and ties are apparently optional for MEPs.
In the meantime, UKIP speaker:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/SY0gxz0J2WE
Download each speech as an MP4 video. Debate starts at 15:00:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/en/debate-de...
Edited by agtlaw on Tuesday 10th February 19:01
agtlaw said:
UKIP was against it.
On principle, regardless of benefit to the UK. Still, nice of 'em to turn up.agtlaw said:
Apparently 500,000 UK drivers speed through France every year. Not sure how that figure is calculated. If I go to France and trigger 20 speed cameras then is that 20 drivers?
I suspect the original figure was 500,000 offences, mildly misquoted. It feels high, given that there's about 1.3m total FPNs per year in the UK, it seems.Anybody know the figure for offences detected in the UK committed by vehicles on other EU plates? A two-second google finds a figure of 23,300 for just over half of forces within England and Wales, as quoted by the Daily Brownshirt...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2785067/Fo...
(I idly wonder how many of that half-million were either side of one June weekend, on a route between the channel and département 72...?
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Tuesday 10th February 20:24
TooMany2cvs said:
hdrflow said:
The reason this is most unwelcome is because it brings us closer to an european federation that is surreptitiously being introduced. There's a big difference in allowing for a common european economic market (which is a good thing), but this is too close to political union.
No, it really isn't.Political union, or a "federation", would be every country having the same traffic laws set centrally.
All this is is making it easier for each country to enforce THEIR OWN traffic laws when they're broken by people who don't happen to live in that country.
Speed cameras are bad, Trafpol are good - unless it happens to be in JohnnyForeignerLand, in which case TrafPol are bad and cameras are good, because there won't be any comeback.
Foreign drivers take the piss and the law doesn't apply to them, unless it's British drivers in JohnnyForeignerLand, in which case it's disgusting that the law should apply to them...
Pistonheads - Xenophobic hypocrisy matters.
Well said that man.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff