Pulled over by Police but what could he actually do?

Pulled over by Police but what could he actually do?

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Discussion

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
woodyTVR said:
Wow, didn't expect this many replies!

So it seems on the face of it no one is 100% sure, however if he really wanted a battle he could have issued a ticket - what speed would he issue it at? Depending what speed he put I might have contended it.
Not sure about what?

He doesn't need to be able to show your exact speed, he only has to be able to convince the magistrates that the speed you were travelling at (whatever it was) was in excess of the limit.


woodyTVR said:
The case law quoted doesn't stack up. It is suggesting someone driving at 40 in a 30, that's some margin over and seems to be the point of the case law - 'It would be a very considerable error if the speedometer was as much out as that' Not 75 in a 70, or even 80!
Your speedo is not permitted to under read, so there's no leeway for speedo error on your part.
The case law quoted merely points out that he doesn't need a calibrated speedo to secure a conviction. His testimony & a speedo reading from a non calibrated speedo 'can' be sufficient. It will depend on how convincing he is in satisfying the court that you were comfortably over the posted limit. If he is doing an indicated 70 & you are closing rapidly on him, then it's not a small margin.
Of course if he had decided to report you he could get his non calibrated speedo checked (post event) to establish how much it is out at 70mph to belt & brace it.

woody TVR said:
I thought also with a calibrated speedo you had to be followed for at least 2/10ths of a mile or is it 3? That never happened.
Not a legal requirement.



Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 22 July 17:11

3Dee

3,206 posts

220 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
...that pisses me off is the officer's comment along the lines of "we had to do 85mph to catch you up" SO WHAT, they could have done 71 and caught you up but it would have taken longer.
If you are hell-bent on verbally challenge that, I would, for your own good, start the reply in a calm manner with "with the very greatest respect officer....."

woodyTVR

Original Poster:

622 posts

245 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
woodyTVR said:
Wow, didn't expect this many replies!

So it seems on the face of it no one is 100% sure, however if he really wanted a battle he could have issued a ticket - what speed would he issue it at? Depending what speed he put I might have contended it.
Not sure about what?

He doesn't need to be able to show your exact speed, he only has to be able to convince the magistrates that the speed you were travelling at (whatever it was) was in excess of the limit.


woodyTVR said:
The case law quoted doesn't stack up. It is suggesting someone driving at 40 in a 30, that's some margin over and seems to be the point of the case law - 'It would be a very considerable error if the speedometer was as much out as that' Not 75 in a 70, or even 80!
Your speedo is not permitted to under read, so there's no leeway for speedo error on your part.
The case law quoted merely points out that he doesn't need a calibrated speedo to secure a conviction. His testimony & a speedo reading from a non calibrated speedo 'can' be sufficient. It will depend on how convincing he is in satisfying the court that you were comfortably over the posted limit. If he is doing an indicated 70 & you are closing rapidly on him, then it's not a small margin.
Of course if he had decided to report you he could get his non calibrated speedo checked to establish how much it is out at 70mph to belt & brace it.

woody TVR said:
I thought also with a calibrated speedo you had to be followed for at least 2/10ths of a mile or is it 3? That never happened.
Not a legal requirement.
No one is actually sure whether he could do anything. It's all assumptions based mostly on urban myth. It wouldn't be a black and white FPN because other than his say so he has no evidence of my speed. His 'professional judgment' is the only thing he has to go on and my approach speed was hidden by the Audi. He may have clearly seen the Audi gain at close to three figures but can he hand on heart stand in court and say he clearly saw me - I doubt it'd get that far.

I'd be interested to know if there's any case in the last decade where someone has be convicted of excess speed purely on the evidence of a copper judgment - I doubt it.


vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
woodyTVR said:
vonhosen said:
woodyTVR said:
Wow, didn't expect this many replies!

So it seems on the face of it no one is 100% sure, however if he really wanted a battle he could have issued a ticket - what speed would he issue it at? Depending what speed he put I might have contended it.
Not sure about what?

He doesn't need to be able to show your exact speed, he only has to be able to convince the magistrates that the speed you were travelling at (whatever it was) was in excess of the limit.


woodyTVR said:
The case law quoted doesn't stack up. It is suggesting someone driving at 40 in a 30, that's some margin over and seems to be the point of the case law - 'It would be a very considerable error if the speedometer was as much out as that' Not 75 in a 70, or even 80!
Your speedo is not permitted to under read, so there's no leeway for speedo error on your part.
The case law quoted merely points out that he doesn't need a calibrated speedo to secure a conviction. His testimony & a speedo reading from a non calibrated speedo 'can' be sufficient. It will depend on how convincing he is in satisfying the court that you were comfortably over the posted limit. If he is doing an indicated 70 & you are closing rapidly on him, then it's not a small margin.
Of course if he had decided to report you he could get his non calibrated speedo checked to establish how much it is out at 70mph to belt & brace it.

woody TVR said:
I thought also with a calibrated speedo you had to be followed for at least 2/10ths of a mile or is it 3? That never happened.
Not a legal requirement.
No one is actually sure whether he could do anything. It's all assumptions based mostly on urban myth. It wouldn't be a black and white FPN because other than his say so he has no evidence of my speed. His 'professional judgment' is the only thing he has to go on and my approach speed was hidden by the Audi. He may have clearly seen the Audi gain at close to three figures but can he hand on heart stand in court and say he clearly saw me - I doubt it'd get that far.

I'd be interested to know if there's any case in the last decade where someone has be convicted of excess speed purely on the evidence of a copper judgment - I doubt it.
In law he doesn't need any more evidence than his testimony & speedo reading. If he can say he was travelling at an indicated 70mph in a 70 limit & you closed on him rapidly that is sufficient for him to issue a FPN if he wishes. If you elect court, if he can convince the court that's what happened they can convict. In such a case how quickly he says you were closing is more relevant than if his speedo shows 70 when he is doing 70mph or 65mph.

It's not purely copper judgement, it's copper judgement & his evidence of speedo reading (& that's all that is required in law).

As a side show you could be convicted if two officers on foot (& no speed measurement device available) form the opinion independently at the same time that you were travelling in excess of the limit.

Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 22 July 17:33

woodyTVR

Original Poster:

622 posts

245 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
hman said:
woodyTVR said:
Wow, didn't expect this many replies!



I did once get stopped by an unmarked BMW on the M6. I was doing between 95 and 98 and he recorded it for a good mile; we watched it back and I thought I was screwed. He said he'd call it 95 as I was being polite and had my licence - He then said, oh forget it, just slow down and let me go with a warning.

I got done at 89 on 60 dual carriageway a good few years ago - 6 points and £480 - Harsh!!!!
So without sounding too sanctimonious you have been pulled over for speeding 3 times - prosecuted once - and left off by the skin of your teeth twice.

Is the 4th time not far away I wonder, and will you be as lucky with being let off?

Being pulled over by an L200 ROFL
No I don't think so. I've actually been prosecuted 3 times in the last 21 years of driving. Fixed penalty 3 points in 97 - copper hidden in hedge with gun. Fixed penalty in 98 (Pulled by marked car 99.8 in 70 dual carriageway) 3 points. Steady Eddie for a while with the 6 on board. Then 6 points in about 2008, camera van and grumpy magistrate, 89 - 60 dual carriageway 6 points £480.

I do around 60k-70k miles a year so not bad really.

I have no problem being caught and stopped fair and square. The camera van incident annoyed me as I thought the fine was excessive.

I have actually been pulled by a marked car for overtaking it before. I was within the speed limit (60) and he chose to sit behind a car doing 40. I passed them both and the Policeman followed - which was a dodgy move in itself as there was now something coming. He pulled me and his opening line was, 'you've done nothing wrong but I'd like to talk to you about road safety'. He then spent 10 minutes telling me about all the accidents he'd been to - I felt like a councillor at the end of it all, thought he was having a breakdown lol.

As per my original post I have no issue at all with the Police. My father and FiL were both in the Police in the 70's / 80's. FiL was traffic, father was only a PC for about 12 months - he hated the double standards, speed to lunch and then stop people on the same road, fill your pockets when attending a shop break in etc.

The guy that pulled me was fair to stop me. He was polite as was I. He even passed me after we'd finished and gave me a wave. I was merely curious if he could have actually done anything - I think he'd have been sticking his neck out if he did.

jimbop1

2,441 posts

203 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
Einion Yrth said:
jimbop1 said:
Elroy Blue said:
jimbop1 said:
Elroy Blue said:
jimbop1 said:
I didn't say 'has' to drive. I'm sure they are taught/told to try and stay at 60ish or 80ish to help with the flow of traffic. Common sense really.
No they're not. They drive at speeds that are required at the time.
Oh ok, but I think you're wrong.
No. There are no instructions about what speed they (sorry, we) drive
No guidance, nothing? On any of your driving courses they didn't teach you the best way to drive on a motorway (not in a pursuit) and how to help with the flow of traffic?

Edited by jimbop1 on Monday 21st July 22:54
Er, if it is, as you state, common sense then why would they need specific instruction?
Nice input.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
VonSenger said:
sounds like this d1ck had the hump
woodyTVR said:
The guy that pulled me was fair to stop me. He was polite as was I. He even passed me after we'd finished and gave me a wave.
woodyTVR said:
I think he'd have been sticking his neck out if he did.
I expect you're right. I would have thought the last thing someone in a specialist role like wants to do is stop people for traffic matters on the motorway.

ruggedscotty

5,606 posts

208 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Reading this I find that the OP must be in denial.....

Fact is you passed the police and they were doing 70 - so you were exceeding the speedlimit. And you got the hump because you were pulled. Plod probably got the hump as you passed him....

Whos in the wrong ? You pedantic it may be it still grates that you passed him and showed a disrespect for the law in his eyes. Such is life. You break the law then you have to accept that you will get tugged. simple. 10 k a year or 100 k a year it dont matter.

Generally you will find police have been involved in RTA's at some time - wiping up the mess and breaking unwanted news to others. So really think its a gripe ? you got off and both went your seperate ways afterwards. you ont need to respect the guy but you should give respect to the position.