Dispute With Builders - Radiator Sizing

[silverous]

sherbertdip said:

Back to basics here, but has the fitted radiator been bled, had the flow balanced and the radstat been checked to makes sure it operates properly?

Is that relevant if it is way below spec?

[Steve H]

Snowboy said:

It mostly depends on what's written in the contract.
Does it allow you to withold payment?
Did you agree to that size radiator when you signed something?

If you two can't agree then it's going to need to go to court.

Unless the contract has a clause in it about money then as far as I'm aware you still owe him that money.
You can go to court and try and sue him for the cost of a new radiaror I guess.

But, we're then back to the contract to work out exactly what the builder did wrong.

It's a probably a breach of contract one way or the other but the OP has the advantage of having the money. It would hardly be worth the builder enforcing the debt if there was nothing to argue about, he isn't going to do it when he apparently cannot provide the calcs to show he has done the job properly.

Next move should be notice in writing of a final opportunity to put the fault right within 14 days or the £250 outstanding will be applied to having the repairs done. The OP will hear nothing back and will not hear from any debt collectors.

[sherbertdip]

silverous said:

sherbertdip said:

Back to basics here, but has the fitted radiator been bled, had the flow balanced and the radstat been checked to makes sure it operates properly?

Is that relevant if it is way below spec?

Er, builder says it's suitable, owner says not, so yes, as it could very well be capable of producing enough heat if set up properly. It could be twice the size it needs to be but if not set up it wouldn't give any heat out.

Also was the boiler output checked to see if it has capacity to heat extra radiators?

The radiator could be ok and the builder could be right!!

Edited by sherbertdip on Tuesday 22 July 22:05

[silverous]

sherbertdip said:

Er, builder says it's suitable, owner says not, so yes, as it could very well be capable of producing enough heat if set up properly. It could be twice the size it needs to be but if not set up it wouldn't give any heat out.

Also was the boiler output checked to see if it has capacity to heat extra radiators?

The radiator could be ok and the builder could be right!!

Edited by sherbertdip on Tuesday 22 July 22:05

Doesn't this completely ignore the BTU calcs which apparently show it is way under what it should be? If the boiler hasn't been checked then the builder should have done so, they usually can't wait to spec you up a new boiler required.

[98elise]

sherbertdip said:

silverous said:

sherbertdip said:

Back to basics here, but has the fitted radiator been bled, had the flow balanced and the radstat been checked to makes sure it operates properly?

Is that relevant if it is way below spec?

Er, builder says it's suitable, owner says not, so yes, as it could very well be capable of producing enough heat if set up properly. It could be twice the size it needs to be but if not set up it wouldn't give any heat out.

Also was the boiler output checked to see if it has capacity to heat extra radiators?

The radiator could be ok and the builder could be right!!

Edited by sherbertdip on Tuesday 22 July 22:05

If its 1500 btu, then its undersized for the room.

In addition 1500 btu is the maximum output from the radiator, which in reality its never going to achieve. For a start 99% of radiators are plumbed with both pipes at the bottom, but the rating is based one pipe at the top (which is better).

All the builder needs to do is produce his calculations. I suspect there will be none.

[IN51GHT]

It's moved on somewhat.

After threatening to send the debt collectors round I pointed out the debt is still in dispute so they will simply be sent away.

He then moved on to change his angle of attack, stating "OK, we'll go through small claims court in that case" to which I told him to fill his boots & wished him good luck & pointed out I had provided evidence to support my claims rad is undersized, all he could do was say "I have calc's to prove it's the correct size", but was unable to supply them as they were on the radiator manufacturers computer & you need "special software" to read them.

At that point I called the Carl Pilkington "Bullst" .jpeg out from the hard drive & said " see you in court then.

A matter of seconds later an e-mail arrived saying "We are willing to take the moral high ground on this & will replace the radiator with one to your specification, provided payment is made same day".

So all in the desired result, thanks all for your input. If anybody is looking for building work in the Bristol area, PM me & I'll tell you one company to avoid!!!

Edited by IN51GHT on Wednesday 23 July 07:43

[RichardD]

IN51GHT said:

It's moved on somewhat.

After threatening to send the debt collectors round I pointed out the debt is still in dispute so they will simply be sent away.

He then moved on to change his angle of attack, stating "OK, we'll go through small claims court in that case" to which I told him to fill his boots & wished him good luck & pointed out I had provided evidence to support my claims rad is undersized, all he could do was say "I have calc's to prove it's the correct size", but was unable to supply them as they were on the radiator manufacturers computer & you need "special software" to read them.

At that point I called the Carl Pilkington "Bullst" .jpeg out from the hard drive & said " see you in court then.

A matter of seconds later an e-mail arrived saying "We are willing to take the moral high ground on this & will replace the radiator with one to your specification, provided payment is made same day".

So all in the desired result, thanks all for your input. If anybody is looking for building work in the Bristol area, PM me & I'll tell you one company to avoid!!!

"Special software" - he probably meant a PDF reader !

Great news, thanks for updating us all

[silverous]

Special needs software.

[3Dee]

IN51GHT said:

It's moved on somewhat.

After threatening to send the debt collectors round I pointed out the debt is still in dispute so they will simply be sent away.

He then moved on to change his angle of attack, stating "OK, we'll go through small claims court in that case" to which I told him to fill his boots & wished him good luck & pointed out I had provided evidence to support my claims rad is undersized, all he could do was say "I have calc's to prove it's the correct size", but was unable to supply them as they were on the radiator manufacturers computer & you need "special software" to read them.

At that point I called the Carl Pilkington "Bullst" .jpeg out from the hard drive & said " see you in court then.

A matter of seconds later an e-mail arrived saying "We are willing to take the moral high ground on this & will replace the radiator with one to your specification, provided payment is made same day".

So all in the desired result, thanks all for your input. If anybody is looking for building work in the Bristol area, PM me & I'll tell you one company to avoid!!!

Edited by IN51GHT on Wednesday 23 July 07:43

I am please it looks like the end is in sight, BUT knowing how devious some builders are , I would make very sure that that radiator is NEW and of the same type as your others, and not one he has had knocking around his yard for yonks, or a used one he has taken out from another job (very common)and of indeterminate age, (as well as all the fittings are new), and that indeed it is the correct rating. If it is new and correct, be sure you fully test it to your satisfaction before handing over the money!

When it come to builders, am I cynical? Yep! You bet! - I have had direct experience many times of what a builder can attempt!

[robinessex]

Maybe relevent. I was under the impression on new house builds, that a % sum of the full amount payable was retained by the client to cover 'snagging' That's all the little things that need correction. When those are done to the clients satisfaction, the account is finalised.

[silverous]

robinessex said:

Maybe relevent. I was under the impression on new house builds, that a % sum of the full amount payable was retained by the client to cover 'snagging' That's all the little things that need correction. When those are done to the clients satisfaction, the account is finalised.

Depends on the contract and this isn't a new house build?