Neighbours from hell

[tbc]

ilikestellaartoi said:

tbc said:

I'm not a stalker, but...

Goes to bed at 10pm on the dot, gets up at 5am, Goes out a 6am, comes back at 9am. Then sits inside the rest of the day.

He puts his bin out 5.34pm on the dot

He told me his bin has to be out at that time precisely

[Jasandjules]

Issue a court claim against the Housing Authority. You can bet they will do something then.

[HDM]

Tox,

Just want to add that your brother has my sympathies as well.

I had a similar situation when I lived in Kingston. As others have suggested, report this to the police, the agency responsible for placing the scrotes there and if the property is being rented by this agency from a third party, try and let them know as well, in case they are unaware that their property is being mistreated.

Also, try and find out if other residents are being impacted, and get as many as possible to compile reports/logs of all anti-social activity which can be submitted to add weight to the situation.

I also got my local councilor involved, who was great help, much more that I would have expected to be honest.

Situations like this are horrible, and very stressful, I hope it can be resolved as quickly as possible.

[tenpenceshort]

Jasandjules said:

Issue a court claim against the Housing Authority. You can bet they will do something then.

I'm just wondering whether they could be vicariously liable under harassment act?

[GTIR]

I have a mate who bought a house knowing full well there were serious neighbour issues, both sides, and got it quite cheap. One hour after he moved in there was a knock at the door and some fat meat head said "Move your fking car from my space or I'll move it for ya" and my mate just lamped him one and shut the door. That was the end of that "problem".

They are still noisy but as soon as he gets home they all scuttle inside. Very funny to watch.

He's not even that big but he is well hard like.

[anonymous-user]

tenpenceshort said:

Jasandjules said:

Issue a court claim against the Housing Authority. You can bet they will do something then.

I'm just wondering whether they could be vicariously liable under harassment act?

No, they couldn't. Vicarious liability is (broadly speaking) based on the concept of respondeat superior (ie: the employer must answer for the employee). There are some circumstances in which vicarious liability arises outside an employer-employee/principal-agent situation (parent-child for example), but none appear to be relevant here.

Also, issue a claim alleging what cause of action, exactly? This isn't the place for an essay on the (limited) grounds on which a public authority can be liable for the actions of (non employed) others (Dorset Yacht and all that) or for breach of duties imposed by statute (X v Bedfordshire and all that), or generally in public law, but suffice it to say that establishing liability isn't easy, and just saying "oh, sue the Council" isn't, I suggest, very helpful.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 July 22:46

[Eclassy]

Gargamel said:

If they get no change out of the housing association, or council. They should go and see their MP and ask for assistance in raising the matter. MP'S will often intervene and it shows the council that they will not let the matter rest.

I suggest they also sound record some of this abuse they are receiving and attach the file to their next communication to the housing association.

Or move.

This.

MPs are very good with this. In my vast experience they will always raise your concern with the appropriate person or body.

Dont forget you can use the Local Government Ombudsman too if you feel the council are refusing to do the right thing.

[cptsideways]

There is probably no harm in posting up on the HA/Council social media feeds which I'm sure they have.

[tenpenceshort]

Breadvan72 said:

No, they couldn't. Vicarious liability is (broadly speaking) based on the concept of respondeat superior (ie: the employer must answer for the employee). There are some circumstances in which vicarious liability arises outside an employer-employee/principal=agent situation (parent-child for example), but none appear to be relevant here.

Also, issue a claim alleging what cause of action, exactly? This isn't the place for an essay on the (limited) grounds on which a public authority can be liable for the actions of (non employed) others (Dorset Yacht and all that) or for breach of duties imposed by statute (X v Bedfordshire and all that), or generally in public law, but suffice it to say that establishing liability isn't easy, and just saying "oh, sue the Council" isn't, I suggest, very helpful.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 23 July 22:01

Thanks for that. It was just a pondering on how far vicarious liability goes (I've never really spent any time looking into it). Will have a peek at the authorities you point to and do some learning.

[Pothole]

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/Myneighbourhood....

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/Reportantisocial...

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/EasyReadTenancyA...

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/GreatNeighbours/

[toxgobbler]

Pothole said:

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/Myneighbourhood....

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/Reportantisocial...

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/EasyReadTenancyA...

http://www.housingsolutions.co.uk/GreatNeighbours/

Thanks for the replies. It's just heartbreaking to see. We're trying to do what we can, but Housing solutions are stonewalling, probably because they know this is a problem tenant. Many of the other neighbours are afraid and unwilling to speak out, although we have one on side. Brother is now getting a new fence put in along side their fence (at least then if they kick that it'll be criminal damage) but it's money he can't afford and to my eyes shouldn't have to be spending. So angry, but also have a family and job myself that I can't risk by going head on, it just seems that law abiding folks are getting the crap deal again from all and sundry and feeling helpess

[EskimoArapaho]

cptsideways said:

There is probably no harm in posting up on the HA/Council social media feeds which I'm sure they have.

This. The HA bods have days full of working with many of these scumbags, and you need to pester. Be the squeaky where that gets oiled first.

As BV has said that a legal route is likely to be tricky (which also means expensive), I suggest a cheaper route:

Establish a domain called www.[insertHAnamehere]problems.com
Keep it anonymous (except for the HA's name)
Use blogging freeware
Add a chronological record of every bit of anti-social behaviour of the neighbours
Include photos/etc (again, blur out stuff to keep it anon)
Include details of the many instances where the OP's brother has contacted the HA
Include the HA response (if any), redacted of any personal name (you're not doxxing the individuals there)
Email the designated HA person every time your brother updates the blog
Over time, slowly add extra CCs for each update - first the LA's councilors for housing, then your local councilor, then your MP, then your local paper, etc. (The idea is that over time some of these send emails to the HA asking what's going on, and a steady stream of these is more useful than a sudden burst that's over too quickly)
If the HA has a Twitter feed and/or FB page include post message updates there

All the time, remember that whatever happens your target is the underperforming HA (not the actual scumbags).

Good luck.

[CAPP0]

ikarl said:

tbc said:

He puts his bin out 5.34pm on the dot

You know this and he's the nutter?

Does the neighbour look like this?

[austinsmirk]

GTIR said:

I have a mate who bought a house knowing full well there were serious neighbour issues, both sides, and got it quite cheap. One hour after he moved in there was a knock at the door and some fat meat head said "Move your fking car from my space or I'll move it for ya" and my mate just lamped him one and shut the door. That was the end of that "problem".

They are still noisy but as soon as he gets home they all scuttle inside. Very funny to watch.

He's not even that big but he is well hard like.

I wish all cases could be solved that easily.

I have previously worked in social housing- everyone is right with their advice- get onto their landlord, they'll have an anti social team, start keeping diary notes etc. Its dealt with seriously.

Just picking up on GTIR's great tale.

I once had a tnt whose family were being seriously bullied by and another tnt. This was a seriously nice rural estate and by a quirk, they lived in an amazing detached stone farmhouse we owned. scum family were even getting their kids to bully the others at school. A proper campaign of war.

Their theory was, family would flee, farmhouse would be vacant and I'd be forced somehow (as if) to give them the big farmhouse as they has a large family.

In practice my lovely family choose to do something called a mutual exchange of tenancies with another household.

except the family I now allowed to move in were part of a hardened hells angel chapter- i.e dad with all the leathers, patches, gear, bikes- one serious hard man, typical foxy biker wife and a string of kids.

Trust me, this chap didn't stand for any harassment from some local pretend hard man on a council estate in his track suit.

He also had my backing as the landlord, he had my carte blanc to do what he needed to do, to get things sorted and I certainly wouldn't be harassing him about his behaviour on the estate.

[Wings]

Breadvan72 said:

No, they couldn't. Vicarious liability is (broadly speaking) based on the concept of respondeat superior (ie: the employer must answer for the employee). There are some circumstances in which vicarious liability arises outside an employer-employee/principal-agent situation (parent-child for example), but none appear to be relevant here.

Also, issue a claim alleging what cause of action, exactly? This isn't the place for an essay on the (limited) grounds on which a public authority can be liable for the actions of (non employed) others (Dorset Yacht and all that) or for breach of duties imposed by statute (X v Bedfordshire and all that), or generally in public law, but suffice it to say that establishing liability isn't easy, and just saying "oh, sue the Council" isn't, I suggest, very helpful.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 23 July 22:46

If a landlord/leaseholder can be held accountable for their tenant's anti social behaviour, then why not the agents, housing associations be also held accountable.

The Housing Act 1996 already provides for grounds for possession where a tenant, member of the household or a visitor is convicted of either anti social behaviour or a criminal offence in the locality of the tenanted property.

Following the riots of 2011, HMG are presently looking at legislation for repossession of a tenanted property, where the tenant is convicted for anti social behaviour any where within the UK. This repossession includes other occupants of the rental property, even though those others may be innocent of any offence.

A tenancy contract between a landlord and tenant, is no different than a tenancy contract between the housing association and their tenant, which includes an obligation on all parties that the tenant must insure that no members of the household behaves in an anti social behaviour.

Having been in a similar situation myself with a leasehold rental property, a housing association threatening legal proceedings for breach of the Lease, tenants anti social behaviour, I am quite certain legal threats made to the housing association, will see immediate results to the troubled neighbours.

[Who me ?]

GTIR said:

I have a mate who bought a house knowing full well there were serious neighbour issues, both sides, and got it quite cheap. One hour after he moved in there was a knock at the door and some fat meat head said "Move your fking car from my space or I'll move it for ya" and my mate just lamped him one and shut the door. That was the end of that "problem".

They are still noisy but as soon as he gets home they all scuttle inside. Very funny to watch.

He's not even that big but he is well hard like.

like it, but BE VERY careful . I had similar problems for many years with one so called hard case ,till one night I caught him on the rear of my car, possibly looking for a reaction . I ran out to chase them and ended up on the floor. I was told later that a baseball bat was seen. Minutes later he attacked me and I lumped him with my right hand( I'm left handed) .Police arrived and immediately sussed what had happened ( he was "well known"). Statements taken I was told that was that,till scrote got Police investigating. Fortunately next door had witnessed it and he lost out. I've seen him a few times since then ,but he stays well clear. I often wonder why he bothered as my eldest is aged with him and any time lad got problems at school- yobo lost out.

[anonymous-user]

Legal threats of what? A landlord is not generally liable for a tenant's misconduct, so any such threat would be empty. All those suggesting suing the landlord, what's the cause of action? (free clue: there isn't one)

[cptsideways]

We have had similar issues, the HA did feck all, as did the police despite some fairly unsavory dealings from the property. Everything got hid under the carpet so officially all records say there was nothing going on. We have plenty of hard evidence to suggest otherwise. Threats of making this public saw a change in that the resident got moved on not evicted & the premises has remained empty for several months.


We would consider suing the HA for failing in their duties but it seems an impossible task, we would love to hear from anyone who knows otherwise as the HA are a bunch of tossers as far as we are concerned. There are plenty of others in similar circumstances will to take the matters all the way through the courts if need be. Perhaps a friendly lawyer would like to be the first to poke a big stick up these failing HA's backsides?

[V8 Fettler]

At least one London borough used to keep a couple of tower blocks for occupation by problem families. Southwark had a couple of estates for the same purpose

[kowalski655]

Breadvan72 said:

Legal threats of what? A landlord is not generally liable for a tenant's misconduct, so any such threat would be empty. All those suggesting suing the landlord, what's the cause of action? (free clue: there isn't one)

Rylands v Fletcher? Escape of scumbaginess from their property