Breach of covenants in lease
Discussion
Hi all. I would appreciate some advice regarding breach of covenants in our lease by others living in the development where I live. It is a shared ownership property of which I currently own a 50% share. It is managed / owned by a housing association.
There is an open lawned area in the middle of the development that my balcony looks over. Children play ball games here on a daily basis, often late into the evening and very noisily. Particularly annoying with the windows and doors open with the weather as it currently is. The grass is all torn up as a result, footballs fly into cars, skateboards, scooters, bikes; you name it. Litter is left, shrubs and small trees are damaged etc.
I am no kill joy but this is starting to seriously effect our enjoyment of our home to the extent that we would like to move elsewhere. Complaints have been made by myself and others but not a lot is done. On 2 occasions the housing association has sent letters requesting parents to ensure their children play respectfully.
Our lease contains the following covenants:
Schedule 2, Mutual Covenants 11: Not to permit children to play in any of the common parts or basement car park and not to permit pets in the garden area forming parts of the common parts
Schedule 2, Mutual Covenants 10 “Not for the playing of games of any description or any other sport of pastime which may annoy or inconvenience any other person or persons living in the building nor shall bicycles, skates or skateboards be used or ridden at any time anywhere in the common parts”
Schedule 2, Mutual Covenants 1 (b) Not to use the premises nor permit the premises to be used for any purpose from which a nuisance can arise to the owners, lessees or occupiers of the other premises
So my question is, what obligation is there for the housing association to enforce these covenants?
What can I do other than email and phone to complain?
The parents of the disruptive children do nothing to control their kids. There are 30 plus children on the development and they all play outside in the communal area. I honestly would not have chosen to live here had I known this would be the case, but I was reassured by the terms of the lease
There is an open lawned area in the middle of the development that my balcony looks over. Children play ball games here on a daily basis, often late into the evening and very noisily. Particularly annoying with the windows and doors open with the weather as it currently is. The grass is all torn up as a result, footballs fly into cars, skateboards, scooters, bikes; you name it. Litter is left, shrubs and small trees are damaged etc.
I am no kill joy but this is starting to seriously effect our enjoyment of our home to the extent that we would like to move elsewhere. Complaints have been made by myself and others but not a lot is done. On 2 occasions the housing association has sent letters requesting parents to ensure their children play respectfully.
Our lease contains the following covenants:
Schedule 2, Mutual Covenants 11: Not to permit children to play in any of the common parts or basement car park and not to permit pets in the garden area forming parts of the common parts
Schedule 2, Mutual Covenants 10 “Not for the playing of games of any description or any other sport of pastime which may annoy or inconvenience any other person or persons living in the building nor shall bicycles, skates or skateboards be used or ridden at any time anywhere in the common parts”
Schedule 2, Mutual Covenants 1 (b) Not to use the premises nor permit the premises to be used for any purpose from which a nuisance can arise to the owners, lessees or occupiers of the other premises
So my question is, what obligation is there for the housing association to enforce these covenants?
What can I do other than email and phone to complain?
The parents of the disruptive children do nothing to control their kids. There are 30 plus children on the development and they all play outside in the communal area. I honestly would not have chosen to live here had I known this would be the case, but I was reassured by the terms of the lease
Again understand your frustration- covenant 1b relates to the property itself whilst 10 and 11 relate to common parts of which I presume the grassed area forms part. It's a clear breach but i doubt there will be any appetite to enforce the covenant prohibiting ball games etc and which is beset with practical difficulties
I'm in the same situation as you. The little turds run riot, f
k everything up and generally behave in a manner, if they were adults, that you'd report to the police for anti-social behaviour.
There are also rules here forbidding them from behaving like that.
I just accept that their parents are selfish assholes who don't give a fk about their neighbours and obviously the kids aren't to blame as they don't know any better. Therefore I just live and let live.
k everything up and generally behave in a manner, if they were adults, that you'd report to the police for anti-social behaviour.There are also rules here forbidding them from behaving like that.
I just accept that their parents are selfish assholes who don't give a f
k about their neighbours and obviously the kids aren't to blame as they don't know any better. Therefore I just live and let live. Yes, they will be in breach of their lease (provided that they have the same lease as you) but apart from sending them snotty letters, there isn't too much else the housing association can do apart from snotty letters as it is simply too difficult, time consuming or expensive.
I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
As you can see from this, trying lay the law down on a load of houses just because their kids play football on the lawn isn't going to happen.
If they don't pay their service charge or rent, it's a piece of piss to get them out though!
I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
As you can see from this, trying lay the law down on a load of houses just because their kids play football on the lawn isn't going to happen.
If they don't pay their service charge or rent, it's a piece of piss to get them out though!
Thanks for the replies so far guys. Most of the children live in houses with private gardens and there is a park around the corner so it's not as if they have nowhere to go. Some days I just put up and tolerate it; other days it really gets on my wick.
It annoys me that the housing assosiation include such terms in the lease but then do nothing to enforce it. Why bother including it? I'm sure they would react more strongly to a breach if it was in their interest to.
85% of the people that live here are peaceful and it is spoilt by the minority. I wish more people would speak up and complain, maybe then something would get done
It annoys me that the housing assosiation include such terms in the lease but then do nothing to enforce it. Why bother including it? I'm sure they would react more strongly to a breach if it was in their interest to.
85% of the people that live here are peaceful and it is spoilt by the minority. I wish more people would speak up and complain, maybe then something would get done
It's up to the leaseholder to take action. They however will have no interest in doing anything, as it costs money and they have nothing to gain.
When I spoke to mine, they offered to write a strong letter of complaint to the offender. When that obviously fails, any legal action will have to be funded by you.
This is just my own experience, so it may be different for others.
When I spoke to mine, they offered to write a strong letter of complaint to the offender. When that obviously fails, any legal action will have to be funded by you.
This is just my own experience, so it may be different for others.
NinjaPower said:
Yes, they will be in breach of their lease (provided that they have the same lease as you) but apart from sending them snotty letters, there isn't too much else the housing association can do apart from snotty letters as it is simply too difficult, time consuming or expensive.
I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
And for £6000 you could have had her assessed, referred, and put on the path to recovery. Or you could have had her evicted. I know which I'd have chosen; you chose the opposite. I'm happy that you're happy, but for no other reason.I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
Hi Ninja. Thanks for that
This sort of confirms that I need out of here. I had better start saving!
This is not very PC but the kids are all from the social housing and their families pay very little to live there. Funnily enough everyone in the shared ownership part who has invested in the development behaves decently!
This sort of confirms that I need out of here. I had better start saving!
This is not very PC but the kids are all from the social housing and their families pay very little to live there. Funnily enough everyone in the shared ownership part who has invested in the development behaves decently!
Lozw86 said:
It annoys me that the housing assosiation include such terms in the lease but then do nothing to enforce it. Why bother including it? I'm sure they would react more strongly to a breach if it was in their interest to.
It isn't up to the housing association.The HO has to go to court and argue that the lease has been breached before anything can happen.
Imagine going to court and asking for the lease to be forfeited, and the judge says "let me get this straight, you want to make a family homeless and seize the asset that they have paid £100,000 for just because their kids play football on the grass?"
No court in the land would deem that reasonable.
What the court might do, is instruct the family to stop allowing their kids to play football on the grass. Which will stop them for all of a few weeks, before it all starts again and you have to try to take them back to court all over again... Which will result in the family denying they were actually playing on the grass.
And repeat for months/years on end while spending money doing it.
Lozw86 said:
Hi Ninja. Thanks for that
This sort of confirms that I need out of here. I had better start saving!
This is not very PC but the kids are all from the social housing and their families pay very little to live there. Funnily enough everyone in the shared ownership part who has invested in the development behaves decently!
Ah right, I thought you were all leaseholders.This sort of confirms that I need out of here. I had better start saving!
This is not very PC but the kids are all from the social housing and their families pay very little to live there. Funnily enough everyone in the shared ownership part who has invested in the development behaves decently!
Similar applies though. If the HO wants to rip up their tenancy agreement or get them to stop causing a nuisance, it's still a trip to court before they can.
skwdenyer said:
NinjaPower said:
Yes, they will be in breach of their lease (provided that they have the same lease as you) but apart from sending them snotty letters, there isn't too much else the housing association can do apart from snotty letters as it is simply too difficult, time consuming or expensive.
I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
And for £6000 you could have had her assessed, referred, and put on the path to recovery. Or you could have had her evicted. I know which I'd have chosen; you chose the opposite. I'm happy that you're happy, but for no other reason.I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
Even her own police officer father had disowned her due to repeatedly 'sobering up' and getting off the drugs, before just going right back to them and making everyone life hell.
The police log on her was nearing 100 pages, and they too wanted her out of there.
NinjaPower said:
skwdenyer said:
NinjaPower said:
Yes, they will be in breach of their lease (provided that they have the same lease as you) but apart from sending them snotty letters, there isn't too much else the housing association can do apart from snotty letters as it is simply too difficult, time consuming or expensive.
I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
And for £6000 you could have had her assessed, referred, and put on the path to recovery. Or you could have had her evicted. I know which I'd have chosen; you chose the opposite. I'm happy that you're happy, but for no other reason.I'll put it like this, I have only ever got one person out of their home for breach of their lease in 5 years. She was a total mentalist who disturbed the peace in the shared ownership estate nearly every night with public suicide attempts in the street, screaming at neighbours while holding hunting knives and crawling round the street naked and vomiting, and it still took us months, a couple of court visits, and about £6000 in lawyers fees to actually stop her.
Even her own police officer father had disowned her due to repeatedly 'sobering up' and getting off the drugs, before just going right back to them and making everyone life hell.
The police log on her was nearing 100 pages, and they too wanted her out of there.
The sad fact is that all this time, effort and money goes into "dealing with" the problem in the way you've articulated: police action, legal action, and so on. The money spent on all that police time, let alone your own, would have paid for successful treatment over many years with positive outcomes for all. The system is very f*cked-up when society will happily spend £100s / £1000s sending out police officers regularly but will balk at spending much less on treatment and other interventions in a timely fashion.
I still do feel sad that the response to somebody attempting regular "public suicide attempts in the street" is to have them evicted.
You want to deprive children of a safe play area, in the heart of the community where friends and neighbours can keep an eye on them, just so you can watch the grass grow in peace and quiet? We're lucky if we get more than a couple of weeks summer in this country, stick it out and they'll be gone as soon as the sun goes and the rain comes. They'll probably be replaced by dog st though.
t though.Edited by johnny fotze on Wednesday 23 July 13:52
skwdenyer said:
And for £6000 you could have had her assessed, referred, and put on the path to recovery. Or you could have had her evicted. I know which I'd have chosen; you chose the opposite. I'm happy that you're happy, but for no other reason.
It's pretty unlikely that she hasn't been through that, probably several times if she keeps coming to the attention of the authorities.Lozw86 said:
This is not very PC but the kids are all from the social housing and their families pay very little to live there. Funnily enough everyone in the shared ownership part who has invested in the development behaves decently!
I live in a very quiet area but the house immediately behind us in rented. Through a variety of different tenants that have been there, it's always that house that has the noisy summer barbecue's, OTT fireworks etc.
Sheepshanks said:
skwdenyer said:
And for £6000 you could have had her assessed, referred, and put on the path to recovery. Or you could have had her evicted. I know which I'd have chosen; you chose the opposite. I'm happy that you're happy, but for no other reason.
It's pretty unlikely that she hasn't been through that, probably several times if she keeps coming to the attention of the authorities.I am quite prepared to accept that she's been locked up, assessed, sectioned more than once, and so on. But treated? No, probably not. Sadly.
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