HGV speed limits to rise to 50 mph?
Discussion
The Telegraph said:
The speed limit for lorries on rural roads will rise from 40mph to 50mph to reduce tailbacks and the risk of people dying in dangerous overtaking manouvers.
Ministers will today announce that they are ending the "antiquated" speed limit restriction on single-carriageway roads to bring Britain into line with other European countries.
The government will also consult on increasing the speed limit for lorries on dual carriageways from 50mph to 60mph.
Officials believe that move will save hauliers an estimated £11 million a year and "reduce congestion on busy rural roads with large numbers of lorries."
Claire Perry, the new transport minister, said: “We’re are doing all we can to get Britain moving and boost growth. This change will do exactly that and save our haulage industry millions a year.
“Britain has one of the world’s best road safety records and yet speed limits for lorries have been stuck in the 1960s.
"This change will remove a 20mph difference between lorry and car speed limits, cutting dangerous overtaking and bringing permitted lorry speeds into line with other large vehicles like coaches and caravans.
"Current speed limits for HGVs were introduced around 50 years ago and need to be updated given improved vehicle technology.”
In January, Jenny-Anne Stone died after trying to overtake a lorry on the A165 near Hull, Yorkshire. She collided with her sister's car, who was also trying to overtake the lorry, and hit a tree.
Ed King, the President of the AA, said: "We know from our members that quite often trucks doing 40mph on rural roads not only causes congestion but actually causes added danger.
"If the truck is doing 50mph, all the evidence suggests that the driver will be quite content to stick behind it rather than try to overtake.
"We think it is a positive step, but on narrower, rural roads which are popular with cyclists the local authorities should be able to apply for 40mph limits."
Jack Semple, of the Road Haulage Association said: “This evidence-based decision by Ministers, to increase the limit to 50mph will be strongly welcomed by hauliers and their drivers. The current limit is long out-of-date and the frustration it generates causes unnecessary road safety risks.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10985856/Speed-limit-on-rural-roads-to-rise-to-50mph.htmlMinisters will today announce that they are ending the "antiquated" speed limit restriction on single-carriageway roads to bring Britain into line with other European countries.
The government will also consult on increasing the speed limit for lorries on dual carriageways from 50mph to 60mph.
Officials believe that move will save hauliers an estimated £11 million a year and "reduce congestion on busy rural roads with large numbers of lorries."
Claire Perry, the new transport minister, said: “We’re are doing all we can to get Britain moving and boost growth. This change will do exactly that and save our haulage industry millions a year.
“Britain has one of the world’s best road safety records and yet speed limits for lorries have been stuck in the 1960s.
"This change will remove a 20mph difference between lorry and car speed limits, cutting dangerous overtaking and bringing permitted lorry speeds into line with other large vehicles like coaches and caravans.
"Current speed limits for HGVs were introduced around 50 years ago and need to be updated given improved vehicle technology.”
In January, Jenny-Anne Stone died after trying to overtake a lorry on the A165 near Hull, Yorkshire. She collided with her sister's car, who was also trying to overtake the lorry, and hit a tree.
Ed King, the President of the AA, said: "We know from our members that quite often trucks doing 40mph on rural roads not only causes congestion but actually causes added danger.
"If the truck is doing 50mph, all the evidence suggests that the driver will be quite content to stick behind it rather than try to overtake.
"We think it is a positive step, but on narrower, rural roads which are popular with cyclists the local authorities should be able to apply for 40mph limits."
Jack Semple, of the Road Haulage Association said: “This evidence-based decision by Ministers, to increase the limit to 50mph will be strongly welcomed by hauliers and their drivers. The current limit is long out-of-date and the frustration it generates causes unnecessary road safety risks.”
Notwithstanding the fact that raising the limit for HGVs on DCs from 50 to 60 won't make a jot of difference as they'll still be sitting at 56 mph on the limiter - does this mean we'll now have 44 tonners getting stuck behind Micras?
mcgandalf said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-ra...
Notwithstanding the fact that raising the limit for HGVs on DCs from 50 to 60 won't make a jot of difference as they'll still be sitting at 56 mph on the limiter - does this mean we'll now have 44 tonners getting stuck behind Micras?
The proposal is to increase the SC limit from 40 to 50.Notwithstanding the fact that raising the limit for HGVs on DCs from 50 to 60 won't make a jot of difference as they'll still be sitting at 56 mph on the limiter - does this mean we'll now have 44 tonners getting stuck behind Micras?
Presumably the agenda is to reduce the car and bike limit to 50, thereby making automated enforcement easier.
Dr Jekyll said:
The proposal is to increase the SC limit from 40 to 50.
Presumably the agenda is to reduce the car and bike limit to 50, thereby making automated enforcement easier.
Think they pretty much have. There's not many NSL roads that are still NSL. Many many fine roads are now 50mph or even 40mph for no reason. Presumably the agenda is to reduce the car and bike limit to 50, thereby making automated enforcement easier.
We'll still all be getting stuck behind Mr Fortyandabit everywhere no doubt.
Jayyylo said:
What the article is actually saying is 'We don't want anyone to overtake another vehicle on an A or B road, ever'.
Quite - overtaking something doing 40 is far safer than something doing 50. they must be assuming that people won't overtake something doing 50 at all.Using the A34 daily in Cheshire I'm a bit surprised that the SC limit for HGVs is 40... most of them are doing 50 anyway. It's just the bloody farm traffic that causes a regular nightmare.
Dr Jekyll said:
Gixer said:
Think they pretty much have. There's not many NSL roads that are still NSL. Many many fine roads are now 50mph or even 40mph for no reason.
We'll still all be getting stuck behind Mr Fortyandabit everywhere no doubt.
It very much depends on the county. We'll still all be getting stuck behind Mr Fortyandabit everywhere no doubt.
Gixer said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Gixer said:
Think they pretty much have. There's not many NSL roads that are still NSL. Many many fine roads are now 50mph or even 40mph for no reason.
We'll still all be getting stuck behind Mr Fortyandabit everywhere no doubt.
It very much depends on the county. We'll still all be getting stuck behind Mr Fortyandabit everywhere no doubt.
I don't dispute that a lot of former NSLs have been reduced, but it's an exaggeration to say there is pretty much a universal 50 limit and that there are not many NSLs left.
Dr Jekyll said:
The proposal is to increase the SC limit from 40 to 50.
Presumably the agenda is to reduce the car and bike limit to 50, thereby making automated enforcement easier.
It's been possible to auto enforce by size for a long time. Don't know about other areas, but ABD have mentioned a few in Warks for some time. Presumably the agenda is to reduce the car and bike limit to 50, thereby making automated enforcement easier.
Dr Jekyll said:
In my experience Warwickshire former NSL SCs are almost entirely 50 except for the Fosse Way.
Indeed. And I'm convinced that the local population are now brainwashed into thinking that the limit for a SC is 50, not 60. I've had several angry gestures recently when overtaking Mr. Forty-five-everywhere on a rural NSL road.This may, however, soften the blow of the new A9 average speed cameras ever so slightly (ok, maybe not...).
Previously there would have been streams of car traffic stuck behind an HGV doing a constant 40 along a large proportion of the 113 mile stretch, petrified of overtaking lest they exceed an 'average' of 60 and get zapped.
Now the HGVs will be able to sit on the limiter at 56 (less than 50 + 10% + 2) and - frankly - many car drivers won't notice much of a difference compared to an average speed of 60.
This will, of course, just reinforce an ingrained habit of absolutely zero overtaking - even when necessary.
Previously there would have been streams of car traffic stuck behind an HGV doing a constant 40 along a large proportion of the 113 mile stretch, petrified of overtaking lest they exceed an 'average' of 60 and get zapped.
Now the HGVs will be able to sit on the limiter at 56 (less than 50 + 10% + 2) and - frankly - many car drivers won't notice much of a difference compared to an average speed of 60.
This will, of course, just reinforce an ingrained habit of absolutely zero overtaking - even when necessary.
[quote=Who me ?]
It's been possible to auto enforce by size for a long time. Don't know about other areas, but ABD have mentioned a few in Warks for some time.
[/quote]
If you drive past a GATSO (on an NSL SC) at 60 in a Ford Transit Connect, for example, where the limit is 50 for that class of vehicle, how does the GATSO tell that you're not driving a Land Rover Discovery, with a 60 limit?
I presume a standard GATSO isn't fitted with ANPR which compares every single reg number against their registered vehicle category?
It's been possible to auto enforce by size for a long time. Don't know about other areas, but ABD have mentioned a few in Warks for some time.
[/quote]
If you drive past a GATSO (on an NSL SC) at 60 in a Ford Transit Connect, for example, where the limit is 50 for that class of vehicle, how does the GATSO tell that you're not driving a Land Rover Discovery, with a 60 limit?
I presume a standard GATSO isn't fitted with ANPR which compares every single reg number against their registered vehicle category?
IainT said:
Quite - overtaking something doing 40 is far safer than something doing 50. they must be assuming that people won't overtake something doing 50 at all.
True, but there are many (most?) drivers who won't overtake regardless of whether it's doing 40 or 50. Therefore, with the assumption that cars will be queuing behind no matter what, it's better that the queue is doing 50mph rather than 40m.Which makes sense, but the idea of reducing the car limit to 50 for blanket automated enforcement is worrying, and the comment about truck speed limits being stuck in the 1960s is annoying because all speed limits have been stuck since then. How much safer is a modern car compared to one from the '60s, so according to that logic, why hasn't the limit been changed?
mcgandalf said:
If you drive past a GATSO (on an NSL SC) at 60 in a Ford Transit Connect, for example, where the limit is 50 for that class of vehicle, how does the GATSO tell that you're not driving a Land Rover Discovery, with a 60 limit?
It doesn't. You can sail past in a 3.5t high-roof long-wheelbase Sprinter and they won't go off. I figured they use axle counters or induction loops or something to detect HGVs, but have no idea how they actually work. All I know is they can nab HGVs breaking the 40 limit. mcgandalf said:
Previously there would have been streams of car traffic stuck behind an HGV doing a constant 40 along a large proportion of the 113 mile stretch, petrified of overtaking lest they exceed an 'average' of 60 and get zapped.
There still are. The A9 is a clusterf
k that has to be seen to be believed. I am covering an overnight run up and down it this week in a large van with a 50mph S/C limit. No matter what speed you do, you either end up in a queue or causing one. Sticking to the 50mph limit for my van just gets me a lorry up my chuff trying to do 56 in a 40. If I let him pass I end up stuck behind him and whatever supermarket lorry doing 40 we both catch up with. At least I can overtake easily with them both now doing 40. Sticking to the 'car' limits also earns me a lorry with a
The most frustrating thing in the world though is having cars behind that refuse to overtake. I position my van to give them a good view, indicate left when it's clear, even stick my hand out and wave them past a few times. One chap following me ignored over twenty safe & obvious overtakes over about 10 minutes, only for the rep 3 cars behind him to decide 'f
k it' and launch past towards the first oncoming lorry we've seen for a couple of miles. I pull in to a layby and let the other 7 pass after this, only to end up stuck behind them all 5 miles later when they won't pass a lorry. 
The A9 is a special case though. I maintain the only stress-free way to travel it is on a litre motorbike, provided the camera vans are asleep.
If they let HGVs do 50, they should bump the van speed limit to 60. It's ridiculous that something often built using car components, with a lighter body and subject to the same weight limit as many cars isn't allowed to do the same speeds.
stroberaver said:
True, but there are many (most?) drivers who won't overtake regardless of whether it's doing 40 or 50. Therefore, with the assumption that cars will be queuing behind no matter what, it's better that the queue is doing 50mph rather than 40m.
Which makes sense, but the idea of reducing the car limit to 50 for blanket automated enforcement is worrying, and the comment about truck speed limits being stuck in the 1960s is annoying because all speed limits have been stuck since then. How much safer is a modern car compared to one from the '60s, so according to that logic, why hasn't the limit been changed?
Wasn't there a new 80mph limit proposed a while back, by Phillip Hammond maybe, but after he left, his successor wasn't in favour of it (maybe one of those evironmentalists!)?Which makes sense, but the idea of reducing the car limit to 50 for blanket automated enforcement is worrying, and the comment about truck speed limits being stuck in the 1960s is annoying because all speed limits have been stuck since then. How much safer is a modern car compared to one from the '60s, so according to that logic, why hasn't the limit been changed?
littleredrooster said:
Indeed. And I'm convinced that the local population are now brainwashed into thinking that the limit for a SC is 50, not 60. I've had several angry gestures recently when overtaking Mr. Forty-five-everywhere on a rural NSL road.
Going by the number of DC's with NSL on and drivers doing 50/60mph, I think the same can be said about DC's too. Another thing that I fail to get is the number of DC's that have been reduced to 60/50/40 or even 30 mph. I mean, if you can't even legally pass a HGV, what is the point of having a DC in the first place?
Dairymilk said:
I can't recall the last time I followed an HGV going as slow as 40 on a single carriageway. How will this deliver the improvements when the HGV's already do 56 on these roads?
Let's see what happens when it comes in.
You won't see liveried supermarket lorries exceeding the limit because customers dob them in.Let's see what happens when it comes in.
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