Could I hand my used car back?
Discussion
Hi all,
Hopefully someone could potentially give me some useful information with regards an issue I'm currently having.
I bought a Renaultsport Clio 200 in February from a Renault dealership, having had them before I knew all the issues and problems they can potentially give.
Within 2 weeks I had contacted Renault UK as the brakes upon collection were shot. They needed the usual yearly strip down and clean. Now the car is a 60 plate and had only done 6k miles when I collected it, so knew they had never been done.
The dealership refused to fix them saying they were fine, within 5 minutes of my local Renault dealership driving the car the motor was on the ramps and all pads were replaced. The pads were cracked and the Renault dealership that fixed them were of the view it was totally unsafe and were amazed the car was released like this. So problem one sorted.
Now fast forward a massive 3k miles and 5 months and my car is once again in the Renault dealership. This time with a noise from the engine during high rev gear change. I know the gearboxes are made of chocolate but as normal I kept my mouth shut and allowed Renault uk to deal with the problem.
Here is where my problem now lies, my local Renault have had the car and given it back to me and spoken to Renault UK, their report on what this issue is was this, word for word; "we have no idea what the problem is, although the sound is clearly a mechanical one and something that isn't normal to the running of clio 200's".
Renault have asked for another garage to look at the car but this is all getting a little too much for a sub 10k mileage car.
As I have given them an opportunity to fix the issue and as the issue is within six months of purchase, taking into account the low mileage, is there any room for me to ask for a refund or for Renault to find me a similar specced car to replace mine?
I do love the 200s but can see this becoming a pain!
Anyway thanks for any useful information anyone can provide it will be appreciated.
Hopefully someone could potentially give me some useful information with regards an issue I'm currently having.
I bought a Renaultsport Clio 200 in February from a Renault dealership, having had them before I knew all the issues and problems they can potentially give.
Within 2 weeks I had contacted Renault UK as the brakes upon collection were shot. They needed the usual yearly strip down and clean. Now the car is a 60 plate and had only done 6k miles when I collected it, so knew they had never been done.
The dealership refused to fix them saying they were fine, within 5 minutes of my local Renault dealership driving the car the motor was on the ramps and all pads were replaced. The pads were cracked and the Renault dealership that fixed them were of the view it was totally unsafe and were amazed the car was released like this. So problem one sorted.
Now fast forward a massive 3k miles and 5 months and my car is once again in the Renault dealership. This time with a noise from the engine during high rev gear change. I know the gearboxes are made of chocolate but as normal I kept my mouth shut and allowed Renault uk to deal with the problem.
Here is where my problem now lies, my local Renault have had the car and given it back to me and spoken to Renault UK, their report on what this issue is was this, word for word; "we have no idea what the problem is, although the sound is clearly a mechanical one and something that isn't normal to the running of clio 200's".
Renault have asked for another garage to look at the car but this is all getting a little too much for a sub 10k mileage car.
As I have given them an opportunity to fix the issue and as the issue is within six months of purchase, taking into account the low mileage, is there any room for me to ask for a refund or for Renault to find me a similar specced car to replace mine?
I do love the 200s but can see this becoming a pain!
Anyway thanks for any useful information anyone can provide it will be appreciated.
Edited by Genericuser on Friday 25th July 21:19
I can't multi quote as I'm using my phone.
Firstly, what's it got to do with Renault UK? You bought the car from a dealer, not Renault themselves.
You say the brake strip down and clean is a known fault but then complain that it hasn't been done. Just get it done.
The current Renault dealer is saying the car is dangerous to drive. I assume this isn't the dealer, with whom your contract lies, that you bought the car from?
What have the selling dealer said about it once they've looked at it?
Firstly, what's it got to do with Renault UK? You bought the car from a dealer, not Renault themselves.
You say the brake strip down and clean is a known fault but then complain that it hasn't been done. Just get it done.
The current Renault dealer is saying the car is dangerous to drive. I assume this isn't the dealer, with whom your contract lies, that you bought the car from?
What have the selling dealer said about it once they've looked at it?
Roo said:
I can't multi quote as I'm using my phone.
Firstly, what's it got to do with Renault UK? You bought the car from a dealer, not Renault themselves.
You say the brake strip down and clean is a known fault but then complain that it hasn't been done. Just get it done.
The current Renault dealer is saying the car is dangerous to drive. I assume this isn't the dealer, with whom your contract lies, that you bought the car from?
What have the selling dealer said about it once they've looked at it?
Perhaps have another read of my post, the brakes have been done.Firstly, what's it got to do with Renault UK? You bought the car from a dealer, not Renault themselves.
You say the brake strip down and clean is a known fault but then complain that it hasn't been done. Just get it done.
The current Renault dealer is saying the car is dangerous to drive. I assume this isn't the dealer, with whom your contract lies, that you bought the car from?
What have the selling dealer said about it once they've looked at it?
Also it has everything to do with Renault, I bought it from a Renault dealership and any issues or complaints go through Renault UK who deal and arrange any repairs.
pmjg66 said:
Genericuser said:
Here is where my problem now lies, my local Renault have had the car and given it back to me and spoken to Renault UK, their report on what this issue is was this, word for word; "we have no idea what the problem is, although the sound is clearly a mechanical one and something that isn't normal to the running of clio 200's".
Lol so much for main dealer technical knowledge.Edited by Genericuser on Friday 25th July 21:19
Or not interested as they might not get paid for diagnosing ?
Just to clarify, I have no issue with repairs carried out on the brakes so far, or the ongoing issue, it's just the "we can't find the problem" that annoys me, and I can see this going on for a while and all the time getting more and more difficult to get anything sorted.
So would I have any room to request a similar car or refund? I've given them the opportunity to fix and in their words they can't.
Nope, none.
You have a noise, that's it. You can try to press them to investigate further but it's not grounds for rejection.
Your contract would be with the supplying dealer anyway so I'd expect it would be them you'd need to speak to about rejecting/swapping the car not "Renault UK". Do you have finance on the car through Renault as that may make a slight difference.
What warranty do you have as that may be your best bet to get it resolved?
You have a noise, that's it. You can try to press them to investigate further but it's not grounds for rejection.
Your contract would be with the supplying dealer anyway so I'd expect it would be them you'd need to speak to about rejecting/swapping the car not "Renault UK". Do you have finance on the car through Renault as that may make a slight difference.
What warranty do you have as that may be your best bet to get it resolved?
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 25th July 23:29
charltjr said:
Nope, none.
You have a noise, that's it. You can try to press them to investigate further but it's not grounds for rejection.
Your contract would be with the supplying dealer anyway so I'd expect it would be them you'd need to speak to about rejecting/swapping the car not "Renault UK".
What warranty do you have as that may be your best bet to get it resolved?
I have the remainder of the 4 year standard Renault warrenty which they have then extended again to give me a full years warrenty on the car, this is why I'm dealing with Renault UK as they approve the warrenty work.You have a noise, that's it. You can try to press them to investigate further but it's not grounds for rejection.
Your contract would be with the supplying dealer anyway so I'd expect it would be them you'd need to speak to about rejecting/swapping the car not "Renault UK".
What warranty do you have as that may be your best bet to get it resolved?
Also the noise is clearly something that shouldn't be there, it's not on the same scale as a squeeky glovebox it's when the car is having it's neck wrung during gearchanges it's like an unlubricated piece of metal grinding against something.
Like I said I'm not particularly annoyed about it as I know *eventually* it will be sorted, it's just I'd rather get some trackdays done and actually drive the car rather than it being in the dealers for the next six months having every Renault tech in the northwest sticking their fingers in things but if I don't have any grounds for getting a replacement or refund that's fine, I'll just keep pushing them to get it fixed before warrenty runs out.
It's not on any finance so I can't even try and get the finance company to push Renault, guess I'll just have to deal with it for the next few months!
Genericuser said:
I've given them the opportunity to fix and in their words they can't.
Oh ! lol good luck...Absolute nonsense from the dealer and Renault,something is not making sense here..
How many hours have they spent on the car and what parts have been replaced to find the fault ?
At the main dealer I used to work for diagnosis could not be claimed for on warranty so retail jobs got all the attention.
Just leave the car with them until its fixed and tell them to lend you a loan of equal spec until fixed.
pmjg66 said:
h ! lol good luck...
Absolute nonsense from the dealer and Renault,something is not making sense here..
How many hours have they spent on the car and what parts have been replaced to find the fault ?
At the main dealer I used to work for diagnosis could not be claimed for on warranty so retail jobs got all the attention.
Just leave the car with them until its fixed and tell them to lend you a loan of equal spec until fixed.
They have had it for four days so far, and haven't changed anything. The service manager has heard the noise and told me not to take it over 2k until it's sorted. They did try to get me to pay the diagnosis fee but when I said that wasn't going to happen they then changed their minds and have so far agreed to cover diagnosis costs. They have now arranged another dealership to look at it so again the fee is covered.Absolute nonsense from the dealer and Renault,something is not making sense here..
How many hours have they spent on the car and what parts have been replaced to find the fault ?
At the main dealer I used to work for diagnosis could not be claimed for on warranty so retail jobs got all the attention.
Just leave the car with them until its fixed and tell them to lend you a loan of equal spec until fixed.
TooMany2cvs said:
What's the worst that'll happen? The box gets pulled under warranty, stripped and rebuilt?
I'd be over the moon with a new box so that's not even an issue really.They can put whatever parts they want on it as long as it's fixed and sorted.
Again, I'm not unhappy with the service I've received so far, apart from getting piddly little courtesy cars, I just wanted to know if a replacement or refund was an option incase this starts dragging on and on. Something to poke up their bums when the next dealership cannot find the issue.
TVR1 said:
In summary OP. You purchased a brilliant street racer and use it on track? You mention 'wringing it's neck' and 'want to track it'
Ever thought that it's not the car but you? Complete mechanical lack of sympathy?
And you want Renault to pick up the bill for your abuse?
Ever thought of reading a thread in its entirety before proceeding to comment?Ever thought that it's not the car but you? Complete mechanical lack of sympathy?
And you want Renault to pick up the bill for your abuse?
I purchased a brilliant 'street racer' as you put it that's also an extremely capable car on track. I've done no more than 3k miles since buying it, one of which being a 700 mile round trip to Goodwood and another 450 mile round trip on a week away, it's not yet seen a track and as for 'abuse' it rarely sees anything more than 3.5k before a gearchange, occasionally if I'm going down a sliproad or a long A road I might 'wring it's neck' but when the power comes in at over 5k you'll hopefully understand that that's how they need to be driven to have fun.
I'm not slamming it into gears, dropping down 3 gears from 90 but driving quick whilst being sympathetic to the car. I don't rag a high revving N/A engine around town. When everything's sorted and it's on track then I will drive like a bit of a wally but only then.
So no, I don't want Renault to pick up the bill for my abuse. I just want them to sort a problem on a car that I've had less than a month and not even done 4k of mileage in. If I'd have done 30k to the ring and back for two years then no, I wouldn't even be thinking of any of this but 3k in five months and this problem has been there for almost half of that mileage, I certainly don't think I'm being unreasonable in finding out any potential options if Renault take another six months to find the fault.
Genericuser said:
and as for 'abuse' it rarely sees anything more than 3.5k before a gearchange, occasionally if I'm going down a sliproad or a long A road I might 'wring it's neck' but when the power comes in at over 5k you'll hopefully understand that that's how they need to be driven to have fun.
<looks up a bit>Genericuser said:
my car is once again in the Renault dealership. This time with a noise from the engine during high rev gear change.
TooMany2cvs said:
Genericuser said:
and as for 'abuse' it rarely sees anything more than 3.5k before a gearchange, occasionally if I'm going down a sliproad or a long A road I might 'wring it's neck' but when the power comes in at over 5k you'll hopefully understand that that's how they need to be driven to have fun.
<looks up a bit>Genericuser said:
my car is once again in the Renault dealership. This time with a noise from the engine during high rev gear change.
I think it's quite clear from those two quotes, the car rarely gets driven hard but when it does the noise is there.
Seems like a lot of blame going towards the OP here 
.
This is a low mileage car under warranty and with protection under SoGA that the manufacturer cannot confirm the fault on. How much would you bet that if this had no warranty applicable they would just be suggesting a new gearbox?
I'd be looking for them to put in writing that they cannot find the fault but acknowledge that it exists and that they have recommended that it not be taken over 2k rpm. I would then be suggesting a new gearbox as the only way forward but if they want to just swap the car for an equivalent then that would be fine as well.
. This is a low mileage car under warranty and with protection under SoGA that the manufacturer cannot confirm the fault on. How much would you bet that if this had no warranty applicable they would just be suggesting a new gearbox?
I'd be looking for them to put in writing that they cannot find the fault but acknowledge that it exists and that they have recommended that it not be taken over 2k rpm. I would then be suggesting a new gearbox as the only way forward but if they want to just swap the car for an equivalent then that would be fine as well.
Unfortunately I don't think you've grounds for rejection yet. While the brakes were wrong, they're now fixed. The current problem needs to be fixed and I can see you've lost confidence but I would introduce the threat of rejection without a plan to resolve the problems
I think it's unacceptable to give you the car back and tell you to keep below 2000 rpm unless it was an emergency and temporary thing.
Write a letter regarding the noise asking for written clarity on the next steps they are proposing, include the advice which in effect acknowledges it's a problem, and say you're giving them one last opportunity to resolve.
Then point out that based on two substantial faults in a few months of ownership, the number of times the car has been with them and for how long, etc that you are offering them a reasonable opportunity to resolve but the car is not fit for purpose and failure to resolve will result in you looking to reject.
As I say, a letter, politely written, to the dealer principal of the dealer you bought it from, puts down a marker that you've had enough.
I think it's unacceptable to give you the car back and tell you to keep below 2000 rpm unless it was an emergency and temporary thing.
Write a letter regarding the noise asking for written clarity on the next steps they are proposing, include the advice which in effect acknowledges it's a problem, and say you're giving them one last opportunity to resolve.
Then point out that based on two substantial faults in a few months of ownership, the number of times the car has been with them and for how long, etc that you are offering them a reasonable opportunity to resolve but the car is not fit for purpose and failure to resolve will result in you looking to reject.
As I say, a letter, politely written, to the dealer principal of the dealer you bought it from, puts down a marker that you've had enough.
Genericuser said:
I have the remainder of the 4 year standard Renault warrenty which they have then extended again to give me a full years warrenty on the car,
Er, yours is a 60 plate right?They only had a 3 year warranty at that time, have they extended the Renault warranty (which they would have had to have done before it ran out last year) or have they put their own warranty on? Check this.
As it goes, RUK Customer services are very good and like to see customers get issues resolved, so keep talking to them. If they say get it looked at elsewhere, get it done.
You have no grounds for rejection, don't even start mentioning that or barriers will come up and you'll be left with just your warranty and your statutory rights and nobody fighting your corner.
Good luck.
Butter Face said:
You have no grounds for rejection, don't even start mentioning that or barriers will come up and you'll be left with just your warranty and your statutory rights and nobody fighting your corner.
.
Rubbish... They have told him not to rev the engine above 2000 rpm. They can't fix it. This is the second significant fault in a few months. The car has a years warranty on it. You really think a dealer is going to refuse to deal with him if he sets out clearly that he is giving them the opportunity to resolve but failure to do will result in rejection as goods not fit for purpose?.
The cars been with them for 3 days and they couldn't find a fault. How much time do you think the dealer actually spent looking at the car? An hour? Maybe 2? 3 days they could have stripped the gearbox down
I'm not saying shouting the odds, I'm talking about polite, firm, written, reasonable statements
Jon1967x said:
Butter Face said:
You have no grounds for rejection, don't even start mentioning that or barriers will come up and you'll be left with just your warranty and your statutory rights and nobody fighting your corner.
.
Rubbish... They have told him not to rev the engine above 2000 rpm. They can't fix it. This is the second significant fault in a few months. The car has a years warranty on it. You really think a dealer is going to refuse to deal with him if he sets out clearly that he is giving them the opportunity to resolve but failure to do will result in rejection as goods not fit for purpose?.
The cars been with them for 3 days and they couldn't find a fault. How much time do you think the dealer actually spent looking at the car? An hour? Maybe 2? 3 days they could have stripped the gearbox down
I'm not saying shouting the odds, I'm talking about polite, firm, written, reasonable statements
Jon1967x said:
Unfortunately I don't think you've grounds for rejection yet. W
He doesn't have grounds to reject it yet.
If you start being formal with the dealership and they will get formal back. At the moment, RUK are involved and helping out the OP (from what I've read) and are advising him to get the car looked at elsewhere. Normally when they're advising that, it means they want to get it fixed and another dealer may have the knowledge of what his specific issue is.
Butter Face said:
Jon1967x said:
Butter Face said:
You have no grounds for rejection, don't even start mentioning that or barriers will come up and you'll be left with just your warranty and your statutory rights and nobody fighting your corner.
.
Rubbish... They have told him not to rev the engine above 2000 rpm. They can't fix it. This is the second significant fault in a few months. The car has a years warranty on it. You really think a dealer is going to refuse to deal with him if he sets out clearly that he is giving them the opportunity to resolve but failure to do will result in rejection as goods not fit for purpose?.
The cars been with them for 3 days and they couldn't find a fault. How much time do you think the dealer actually spent looking at the car? An hour? Maybe 2? 3 days they could have stripped the gearbox down
I'm not saying shouting the odds, I'm talking about polite, firm, written, reasonable statements
Jon1967x said:
Unfortunately I don't think you've grounds for rejection yet. W
He doesn't have grounds to reject it yet.
If you start being formal with the dealership and they will get formal back. At the moment, RUK are involved and helping out the OP (from what I've read) and are advising him to get the car looked at elsewhere. Normally when they're advising that, it means they want to get it fixed and another dealer may have the knowledge of what his specific issue is.
Edited by Jon1967x on Saturday 26th July 09:39
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